Ah Bieg...remember that post I made a month or so back? It's in the HyperRev book. I forgot who they talked to (S2000 Chief Engineer or something), but there was an article (entirely in Japanese of course) stating that the F20C was based on the downsized H22, which we all know is on the esteemed Prelude FWD.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=11517

I don't know anything about the SAE paper, but I don't suppose HyperRev, a distinguished Japanese tuning magazine, would outright print inaccurate information.

Also, remember that eventhough Honda makes/donates/helps in tuning the engines out in race circuits, outside firms (like Mugen - it's gots its roots from Honda, it's even owned by Soichiro-san's son, but it's not part of Honda) often have expertise Honda may not have (or need) for specific applications. I'm sure over the years Ichishima-san (Mr. Spoon ) has contributed many things he's learned on the race circuit back to Honda.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GTRPower
Don't paraphrase me when you can't get the concept right.

 

Well according to the SAE Article Written (in English) by the designers of the F20C engine, the only thing the two engines have in common is bore diameter and cylinder pitch. EVERYTHING else is different including the block, head, all internal parts, etc...

So other than using the H22A as a benchmark the two engines have nothing but what is mentioned above in common. While I am sure Honda has a free exchange with some of the companies racing their engines I REALLY DOUBT that anyone but Honda's own R&D designed the F20C.

According to the SAE article the shortened stroke is why the F20C engine displaces less than the H22A using the same bore. As Mugen has done you can increase the stroke back to where the H22A engine was for a displacement 2157 ccs. Of course you should drop the red line accordingly otherwise your piston speeds will be real high. Anyone know if the stroked Mugen Kit still redlines at 9000 RPM?

 

Not disputing your claim brother, but I do like to hear things from the horse's mouth. "Hamlet", "Red Storm Rising", and other literature of English origin are terrible reads in both Japanese and Chinese editions (good try though, I'll give them that); and no doubt the translation of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was probably one of the worst I've ever seen. I've never read the SAE article that you quote so much, so perhaps I should compare that with HyperRev's own articles on the engine. If you know of a link where I can find it I'd appreciate it. I'm blessed by my upbringing with knowledge and understanding in 3 languages (French doesn't count cuz I can never pronounce "R" correctly) and their cultures. Though I'm no translation expert and don't claim to be, I'm pretty sure HyperRev was stating the origins of the F20C can be traced back to the modified H22A they used for racing. Now whether or not the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE, right?) article knew about that is a wholly different matter.

Perhaps the SAE person who wrote the article wasn't Japanese? Or maybe they didn't feel the need to include that bit of history? We can always ask the guy who wrote that article, right?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[BProve it.

 

[QUOTE]Now whether or not the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE, right?) article knew about that is a wholly different matter.

 

So you're saying you trust Hyperrev ( A Japanese tuner magazine) over the Society for Automotive Engineers (A professional Organization).

 

SilverFog-

*Yawn*

If you're going to write so much at least make it entertaining.



Well, they were as off topic as the points they were meant to parry. Unless, of course, you do kick stray dogs for fun...



And what does that have to do with the thread topic at hand? If you stop veering off on a tangent you may actually make sense.

To repost-I just have a hard time believing that there is something out there that will unlock a bunch of extra hp.

To which i replied-Obviously said by someone who has no idea who actually designed the engine in the first place, and who has done absolutely no tuning on this motor whatsoever...

Which is still my opinion, which actually now encompasses you since you have yet to try working on the S2000.

My short opinionated post stated exactly what I wanted it to say- but YOU felt that I needed to elaborate. Not too many of us think that's necessary. If you want to know more, find it yourself- I believe you've done the absolute minimum to engratiate yourself to me, and I therefore feel that I have no need to explain myself any further to the likes of you.



No- this is what you said-[QUOTE][B]Got anything substantial to add, or just flaming?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B][QUOTE]Now whether or not the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE, right?) article knew about that is a wholly different matter.

 

The SAE paper is not published on the web. It has to be ordered from their publications dept.

They compare the two engines in the paper and as I have said the only things in common are the bore centers and the cylinder pitch.

Perhaps Ultimate Lurker can jump in here as he has read the paper also.

Don't believe everything in the magazines as I have read most all of them and they don't all agree on the "facts".

The SAE paper is the most accurate and technical article you can read about this engine at this time.