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10W-60 Synthetic Oil - Good or Bad Idea?

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10W-60 Synthetic Oil - Good or Bad Idea?

 
Old 01-19-2017, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Car Analogy View Post
This sounds like old school thinking. More load, thicker oil. Thicker is better.

Back in the day tolerances were very, very loose compared to modern engines. Even more so modern performance engines.

That thinking just doesn't work anymore.
Makes sense. The F20/22C is such a modern engine beyond even engines that were made just last year that old school thinking doesn't apply to it. Thanks
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by zeroptzero View Post
once you are above 3000 rpms there is plenty of oil pressure , the oil pumps on our engines move huge amounts of oil so no worries about lowering vtec.
Glad to hear this! Learned something new about my F20 thanks to you
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by EricLovato View Post
10w is the cold temp rating on cold starts, you don't need a 10w oil. As far as the operating temp same rating 60w, that's beyond too thick a viscosity. 5/40 is a good weight to run full synthetic - just my opinion and we all have them regarding different oils and weights. Good luck with it. Also, you mentioned casteol edge- I'm running 5/30 full synthetic same brand in my s2000- just bolt one no major mods - seems to be pretty good.
Then I'm sticking to 5/40. Yeah many people have varying opinions on oil viscosity and the brands that make them. If it works, why change it, right? Honda uses 5/30 as OEM spec. Saw it at the dealer i send my car to for servicing. Thanks for the reply
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:47 AM
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10W-30 is spec but lowering the W-number won't hurt if using full synthetic. Lubrication depends on oil flow.

How the lubrication engineers figure this all out must be art as well as science. On my four current cars the oil specs are:

Subaru 2.5 L 0W-20 synthetic
Ford 5.4 V8 5W-20 (OEM oil is semi-synthetic)
Subaru 3.6R 5W-30 synthetic
S2000 10W-30 (synthetic is OK but not specified)

The Subaru 3.6R notes conventional oil is fine but cuts the change interval in half.

Needless to say I have to stock a variety of oil!

-- Chuck
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck S View Post
10W-30 is spec but lowering the W-number won't hurt if using full synthetic. Lubrication depends on oil flow.

How the lubrication engineers figure this all out must be art as well as science. On my four current cars the oil specs are:

Subaru 2.5 L 0W-20 synthetic
Ford 5.4 V8 5W-20 (OEM oil is semi-synthetic)
Subaru 3.6R 5W-30 synthetic
S2000 10W-30 (synthetic is OK but not specified)

The Subaru 3.6R notes conventional oil is fine but cuts the change interval in half.

Needless to say I have to stock a variety of oil!

-- Chuck
U must have quite the budget setup for oil changes lol
Does that boxer engine require quite a thin oil due to design or something else?

5/40 is what seems to be the most suitable for me so I will stick to it.
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:21 PM
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xW-20 oil is only specified to gain those last few tenths of a percent to help comply with EPA fuel mileage regulations.

And since there is a huge percent of the population that thinks the 'W' stands for 'winter', I'm going to reiterate the following.
The 1st number succeeded by a W is nothing more than a representation of the Kinematic Viscosity of the oil at 40 degrees Celsius usually in units of centiStokes (cSt)
The 2nd number is nothing more than a representation of the Kinematic Viscosity of the oil at 100 degrees Celsius usually in units of centiStokes (cSt)

There is a 3rd value that is most important for those that track their cars. That is the High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) test which is performed at 150 degrees Celsius.

10W-60 is perfectly fine to use in a track car that doesn't see too many cold engine starts. It is frequently used in Japanese S2000s. If I had a bigger R&D budget, I would run this oil on the street and do an UOA on it. My hypothesis is that it'll be just fine. Fuel mileage will suffer slightly but that's it.

For all you guys that drank the kool-aid on how the S2000 engine is so 'modern' and 'tight', here are the main and rod bearing clearance limits.
Mains : 0.0007 to 0.0016" (service limit : 0.0020")
Rods : 0.0012 to 0.0021" (service limit : 0.0024")

Let's compare it to an engine designed 10 years prior. Nissan's SR20.
Mains : 0.0008 to 0.0019"
Rods : 0.0007 to 0.0018"

So please stop propagating the notion that the S2000 engine is some sort of special unicorn. The only reason it made big news at launch was because Honda installed a big ass oil pump that provides enough flow to maintain adequate oil pressure at 9000RPM and the camshafts to complement.
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
10/60 is what the E90/92 v8 used. It has a much looser spec engine then the F20/F22.
LOL, this is exactly opposite of the truth.
Official S65 Bearing Specification/Clearance Wiki

Van Dyne Engineering in Huntington Beach called to explain that the engine couldn't be reassembled because the bearing clearance was too small. They measured as little as 0.0011 inch rod bearing clearance, which Van Dyne said would lead to oil starvation and potentially catastrophic engine failure. To confirm these measurements we gathered one more factory crankshaft, and samples of two sets of connecting rods from different engines. Van Dyne confirmed the measurements all matched, and the factory BMW clearance was dangerously too small.

Van Dyne explained that the industry standard clearance should be 0.001" clearance per inch of journal diameter. The BMW factory measurements were approximately half those standard values.
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Old 01-21-2017, 04:27 AM
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As noted the xW-20 oils are mainly for fuel economy. Car is low a quart? Whatcha got will be fine.

The oil needed in the engine is a function of engine design and this is very mature science. For details on the centiStokes (cSt) (referred to by Shind3 -- Thanks!) look once again at Bob's the Oil Guy where it's explained with simplicity even I can understand. It's also noted that if you don't stray far from spec it doesn't matter at all! A CS of 10 at operating temperature is the typical design requirement which is what 30 "weight" looks like at operating temperatures. This is easily obtained (almost) picking an oil blindfolded. Low temperature/startup wear and oil change intervals make up the differences.

Heavily advertised oils cost their producers $millions. They must be getting $millions of profits in return.

-- Chuck
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:13 AM
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All interesting points guys, thank you. There's so much info on motor oil to go thru. If 5W-40 oil is perfect (or close enough) for my supercharged AP1 that sees 8psi of boost on a totally stock engine then I'll stick to it. Haven't tracked the car as yet so that's another chapter to open eventually. Maybe 10/60 will be best for me then depending on how often I track her. Right now I drive hard on street. Not hard as often as fellow S2K owners might drive lol. Not my daily drive either. As long as the oil in the engine protects it from unnecessary wear and aids performance then I'm happy

Any more info/suggestions are highly welcomed
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:16 AM
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5w40 is a good idea for a boosted street setup, I run Red Line 5w40 on my NA ap1 as a personal choice. 5w40 will work well at the track as well. If you start tracking the car you really need to monitor your oil temps, viscosity choice is best done based on oil temps as oil becomes thinner as temps increase. I don't see any situation that would need a 60 weight but everyone should run what they like, oil is a very personal choice and there are too many opinions out there that have very little facts behind them. Nothing sparks a good argument better than oil recommendations.
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