15400-PCX-004 specs?
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 29,977
Likes: 5,468
From: Ontario Canada
I can see why you want all of that test data, it helps make a good comparison, wish we had some of it for the Honda filter.
I've never given much thought to the bypass spring pressure, that Wix/Napa filter has a rating of 24, is that good or bad, do you want a higher number or lower number when it comes to spring pressure ?. Any estimate of the Honda oem filter's spring pressure ?.
Thanks for posting all of this info, this topic has my interest
I've never given much thought to the bypass spring pressure, that Wix/Napa filter has a rating of 24, is that good or bad, do you want a higher number or lower number when it comes to spring pressure ?. Any estimate of the Honda oem filter's spring pressure ?.
Thanks for posting all of this info, this topic has my interest
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 81
From: Florida
I've been using the WIX 51344, which is where my previous data came from. I'm in process of researching if I can use it on my S2000 since I have a box full of them.
The Bypass Value
First you need to understand why the bypass valve is there. Under *ideal* conditions, the bypass valve will *never* open. Because, when it opens, the oil *by passes* the filter and goes on through to the motor, obviously unfiltered. It is a safety valve. However, in *real* operation, it opens often.
One example is when you start the motor when cold. The oil is thick and does not pass easily through the filtration medium, thus building up to a high pressure drop. So, the bypass valve opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor. How long it stays open is dependent on how cold the oil is and how long it takes to get near operating temperature. When the pressure drop across the filtration medium drops below the bypass valve setting, then the bypass closes. Blipping the throttle while warming up is a good way to get the valve to open and send unfiltered oil to the motor. A steady warm-up rpm is probably a lot better.
Another example can occur when the motor is fully warmed. At idle, the oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure drop across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. You take off towards the redline, and quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure drop across the filter will exceed the bypass setting, and send unfiltered oil to the motor, until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize. During a drag race, shifting through the gears, the bypass will open several times.
A third example, which you should never experience with frequent oil and filter changes, is when a filter becomes clogged. A spin-on filter can commonly hold 10 to 20 grams of trash before it becomes fully clogged. The bypass valve opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
According to Purolator, the Honda OEM filter bypass setting is 12 to 14 psi, and that is how they build their motorcycle oil filter. WIX (NAPA Gold) builds their motorcycle and automobile oil filters with a bypass setting of 8 to 11 psi, while AC Delco builds theirs to a setting of 11 to 17 psi. How much do these differences matter? I don't think anyone knows, even the engineers, and each has its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
If you do lots of racing, you're probably better off with a higher bypass setting.
If you do lots of *cold* starting, especially in the winter, or seldom change your filter, I think you're better off with a lower bypass setting. However, with few exceptions, bypass pressures for spin-on filters run in the 8 to 17 psi range, and any of them should work acceptably.
First you need to understand why the bypass valve is there. Under *ideal* conditions, the bypass valve will *never* open. Because, when it opens, the oil *by passes* the filter and goes on through to the motor, obviously unfiltered. It is a safety valve. However, in *real* operation, it opens often.
One example is when you start the motor when cold. The oil is thick and does not pass easily through the filtration medium, thus building up to a high pressure drop. So, the bypass valve opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor. How long it stays open is dependent on how cold the oil is and how long it takes to get near operating temperature. When the pressure drop across the filtration medium drops below the bypass valve setting, then the bypass closes. Blipping the throttle while warming up is a good way to get the valve to open and send unfiltered oil to the motor. A steady warm-up rpm is probably a lot better.
Another example can occur when the motor is fully warmed. At idle, the oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure drop across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. You take off towards the redline, and quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure drop across the filter will exceed the bypass setting, and send unfiltered oil to the motor, until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize. During a drag race, shifting through the gears, the bypass will open several times.
A third example, which you should never experience with frequent oil and filter changes, is when a filter becomes clogged. A spin-on filter can commonly hold 10 to 20 grams of trash before it becomes fully clogged. The bypass valve opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
According to Purolator, the Honda OEM filter bypass setting is 12 to 14 psi, and that is how they build their motorcycle oil filter. WIX (NAPA Gold) builds their motorcycle and automobile oil filters with a bypass setting of 8 to 11 psi, while AC Delco builds theirs to a setting of 11 to 17 psi. How much do these differences matter? I don't think anyone knows, even the engineers, and each has its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
If you do lots of racing, you're probably better off with a higher bypass setting.
If you do lots of *cold* starting, especially in the winter, or seldom change your filter, I think you're better off with a lower bypass setting. However, with few exceptions, bypass pressures for spin-on filters run in the 8 to 17 psi range, and any of them should work acceptably.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 29,977
Likes: 5,468
From: Ontario Canada
I've been using the WIX 51344, which is where my previous data came from. I'm in process of researching if I can use it on my S2000 since I have a box full of them.
The Bypass Value
First you need to understand why the bypass valve is there. Under *ideal* conditions, the bypass valve will *never* open. Because, when it opens, the oil *by passes* the filter and goes on through to the motor, obviously unfiltered. It is a safety valve. However, in *real* operation, it opens often.
One example is when you start the motor when cold. The oil is thick and does not pass easily through the filtration medium, thus building up to a high pressure drop. So, the bypass valve opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor. How long it stays open is dependent on how cold the oil is and how long it takes to get near operating temperature. When the pressure drop across the filtration medium drops below the bypass valve setting, then the bypass closes. Blipping the throttle while warming up is a good way to get the valve to open and send unfiltered oil to the motor. A steady warm-up rpm is probably a lot better.
Another example can occur when the motor is fully warmed. At idle, the oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure drop across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. You take off towards the redline, and quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure drop across the filter will exceed the bypass setting, and send unfiltered oil to the motor, until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize. During a drag race, shifting through the gears, the bypass will open several times.
A third example, which you should never experience with frequent oil and filter changes, is when a filter becomes clogged. A spin-on filter can commonly hold 10 to 20 grams of trash before it becomes fully clogged. The bypass valve opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
According to Purolator, the Honda OEM filter bypass setting is 12 to 14 psi, and that is how they build their motorcycle oil filter. WIX (NAPA Gold) builds their motorcycle and automobile oil filters with a bypass setting of 8 to 11 psi, while AC Delco builds theirs to a setting of 11 to 17 psi. How much do these differences matter? I don't think anyone knows, even the engineers, and each has its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
If you do lots of racing, you're probably better off with a higher bypass setting.
If you do lots of *cold* starting, especially in the winter, or seldom change your filter, I think you're better off with a lower bypass setting. However, with few exceptions, bypass pressures for spin-on filters run in the 8 to 17 psi range, and any of them should work acceptably.
First you need to understand why the bypass valve is there. Under *ideal* conditions, the bypass valve will *never* open. Because, when it opens, the oil *by passes* the filter and goes on through to the motor, obviously unfiltered. It is a safety valve. However, in *real* operation, it opens often.
One example is when you start the motor when cold. The oil is thick and does not pass easily through the filtration medium, thus building up to a high pressure drop. So, the bypass valve opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor. How long it stays open is dependent on how cold the oil is and how long it takes to get near operating temperature. When the pressure drop across the filtration medium drops below the bypass valve setting, then the bypass closes. Blipping the throttle while warming up is a good way to get the valve to open and send unfiltered oil to the motor. A steady warm-up rpm is probably a lot better.
Another example can occur when the motor is fully warmed. At idle, the oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure drop across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. You take off towards the redline, and quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure drop across the filter will exceed the bypass setting, and send unfiltered oil to the motor, until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize. During a drag race, shifting through the gears, the bypass will open several times.
A third example, which you should never experience with frequent oil and filter changes, is when a filter becomes clogged. A spin-on filter can commonly hold 10 to 20 grams of trash before it becomes fully clogged. The bypass valve opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
According to Purolator, the Honda OEM filter bypass setting is 12 to 14 psi, and that is how they build their motorcycle oil filter. WIX (NAPA Gold) builds their motorcycle and automobile oil filters with a bypass setting of 8 to 11 psi, while AC Delco builds theirs to a setting of 11 to 17 psi. How much do these differences matter? I don't think anyone knows, even the engineers, and each has its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
If you do lots of racing, you're probably better off with a higher bypass setting.
If you do lots of *cold* starting, especially in the winter, or seldom change your filter, I think you're better off with a lower bypass setting. However, with few exceptions, bypass pressures for spin-on filters run in the 8 to 17 psi range, and any of them should work acceptably.
So the Wix/Napa filter with bypass listing of #24, that is the spring type, not the pressure, as it would be high at 24 psi ?
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 333
From: Sacramento
Getting the oil filter to go into bypass might be possible IF there were large flow spikes in the oiling system which would cause PSID spikes across the filter. BUT that's virtually impossible because of the nature of a positive displacement oil pump - there really is no way for it to spike in flow output - it's a controlled linear output with RPM. Only way you could get a large flow spike is if you were in neutral at idle, then all off a sudden floored the gas pedal to hit redline in .4 seconds. In that case, the pump's relief valve would open somewhat to help dampen the flow spike but the PSID at the filter would not be that large.
Banging gears down the drag strip only results in 1000 RPM decreases in engine speed between shifts, so once the car has launched in 1st gear the oil pump is basically putting out full flow down the 1/4 mile. As seen in Purolator's tests(below), it's hard to get a filter to go into bypass with hot oil.
From Purolator,
PSID across an oil filter as a function of oil flow in GPM. Mobil 1, 5W-30 oil at 200 deg F. Oil filter, PureOne PL14006.
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/j...neflowdata.jpg
NOTE - not many cars on the road will pump 10 GPM, more like 5~6 GPM at redline, so the pressure drop across the most filters on the road will be around~2 PSID.
ROD
Banging gears down the drag strip only results in 1000 RPM decreases in engine speed between shifts, so once the car has launched in 1st gear the oil pump is basically putting out full flow down the 1/4 mile. As seen in Purolator's tests(below), it's hard to get a filter to go into bypass with hot oil.
From Purolator,
PSID across an oil filter as a function of oil flow in GPM. Mobil 1, 5W-30 oil at 200 deg F. Oil filter, PureOne PL14006.
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/j...neflowdata.jpg
NOTE - not many cars on the road will pump 10 GPM, more like 5~6 GPM at redline, so the pressure drop across the most filters on the road will be around~2 PSID.
ROD
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 333
From: Sacramento
If you look at my pic's of the filters you will see that the Honda and the Wix/Napa filter can is the same height but the filter inside the Wix/Napa is shorter than the Honda one, I believe its(Wix/Napa) is shorter because of the type of bypass valve they use, it takes up more room in the can so the filter itself has to be shorter.
ROD
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 333
From: Sacramento
.http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P1080973.jpg
If you don't know what the bypass looks like, its the little button in the middle of the Honda and Baldwin filters in this pic(the Wix filter uses a different kind of bypass)
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P1080972.jpg
ROD
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 81
From: Florida
ROD, thoughts on using a WIX 51344 in the S2000 F20C? I live in central FL so temps rarely get sub 50 degrees, using 10w30 synth oil.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 7
From: St.Peters,Mo
ROD, thoughts on using a WIX 51344 in the S2000 F20C? I live in central FL so temps rarely get sub 50 degrees, using 10w30 synth oil.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
I have been using the wix/napa 51344/1344 for the last 5yrs on my 03 AP1, it works fine.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 333
From: Sacramento
I see no problems with that filter(51344), if you look up a S2000 filter on the Wix web site it shows that the filter 51334 filter for the "S".
Part Number: 51334
Height: 3.194
Outer Diameter Top: 3.252
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 280
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
And the 51344 is bigger than the 51334(so I would use it over the 51334)
Part Number: 51344
Height: 4.069
Outer Diameter Top: 3.242
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 360
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
If you have a old 51344 filter you should cut it open to make sure the filter inside is as big or bigger than the one(Napa 1334) in my pic's.
2 15/16" X 2 3/4"
ROD
Part Number: 51334
Height: 3.194
Outer Diameter Top: 3.252
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 280
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
And the 51344 is bigger than the 51334(so I would use it over the 51334)
Part Number: 51344
Height: 4.069
Outer Diameter Top: 3.242
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 360
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
If you have a old 51344 filter you should cut it open to make sure the filter inside is as big or bigger than the one(Napa 1334) in my pic's.
2 15/16" X 2 3/4"
ROD