Is this 2002 S2K the updated banjo bolt? With engine SN
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Is this 2002 S2K the updated banjo bolt? With engine SN
I'm looking at a used S2K 2002. I understand halfway through the year, they updated the banjo bolt.
Though it's not definitive, around engine serial F20C 1102 5386 you'll find the updated bolt.
I'm in Canada...but most used S2k's around here are US imports. This 2002 I'm looking at appears to be a Canadian car so I'm not sure if the Engine s/n's are different.
Engine block says F20C1-1120253
So is this a very early build S2k for 2002? Like #253? All the digits don't match...so I'm not sure how to read it.
Thanks for the advice!
Though it's not definitive, around engine serial F20C 1102 5386 you'll find the updated bolt.
I'm in Canada...but most used S2k's around here are US imports. This 2002 I'm looking at appears to be a Canadian car so I'm not sure if the Engine s/n's are different.
Engine block says F20C1-1120253
So is this a very early build S2k for 2002? Like #253? All the digits don't match...so I'm not sure how to read it.
Thanks for the advice!
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Chesterfield VA
The build date on the sticker in the driver's door jam will give you a major clue. For example my 2006 car was made in July 2006 making it a "late" 2006 -- just missed being a 2007.
Nothing you can do about the banjo bolts either way unless you want to open the engine...
-- Chuck
Nothing you can do about the banjo bolts either way unless you want to open the engine...
-- Chuck
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The best of my knowledge is that engine SN's above 5300 likely have the new ones in 2002 but I am not sure if we ever saw confirmation of this exact SN cutoff.
Unless either a) you already suspect an issue with the banjo bolts or b) plan to run at high rpm for long stints (autobahn or the likes) then I would not worry too much about it. I know far more track drivers (me inlcuded) that have never changed them. I do have a set and was going to put them in but have not gotten to it. It is more of an issue for sustained, high rpm stints like 15 + minutes. I think even for track use, there is enough change in RPM that it is not as much of a concern.
You have to pull the oil pan into install them and use the right extension and universal joint. That part is not all that bad but if you cross thread or over tighten them (requires a good feel for it as the angle makes using a tq wrench not as reliable doing it with the engine in) you can really mess something up. Billman250 has some posts about the process too with some good inputs.
But if you are driving the car on the street or even a little track use, I would not be concerned in the least with this. My 01 has seen years of autox use (lots of short spurts near the limiter) and 7 years of fairly regular track use and has 162,000 miles on it right now on the original banjo bolts.
Unless either a) you already suspect an issue with the banjo bolts or b) plan to run at high rpm for long stints (autobahn or the likes) then I would not worry too much about it. I know far more track drivers (me inlcuded) that have never changed them. I do have a set and was going to put them in but have not gotten to it. It is more of an issue for sustained, high rpm stints like 15 + minutes. I think even for track use, there is enough change in RPM that it is not as much of a concern.
You have to pull the oil pan into install them and use the right extension and universal joint. That part is not all that bad but if you cross thread or over tighten them (requires a good feel for it as the angle makes using a tq wrench not as reliable doing it with the engine in) you can really mess something up. Billman250 has some posts about the process too with some good inputs.
But if you are driving the car on the street or even a little track use, I would not be concerned in the least with this. My 01 has seen years of autox use (lots of short spurts near the limiter) and 7 years of fairly regular track use and has 162,000 miles on it right now on the original banjo bolts.
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From: Munich - Germany
To my knowledge, problems with the engines first occured in Germany where some maniacs wich didnt know what "Engine Piston speed" actually means pressed the engine hard on the Autobahn for 10, 15.... Minutes.
The last totaled engines i read about back when i was member of the german S2000 Forum all had one thing in common: Trying to see how much top speed the car actually could reach on the autobahn. What a stupid waste of good engines.
My speed limit here is 7.000 RPM / 6. Gear. I still didnt tried to reach top speed with my S2000 and never will do.
engifineer is right, if you dont try to doo foolish things like this, you should be safe. If you like, simply change the bolts. But be carefull, you really need a high quality 1/4" torque wrench and be sure to not cross thread the Bolts.
The last totaled engines i read about back when i was member of the german S2000 Forum all had one thing in common: Trying to see how much top speed the car actually could reach on the autobahn. What a stupid waste of good engines.
My speed limit here is 7.000 RPM / 6. Gear. I still didnt tried to reach top speed with my S2000 and never will do.
engifineer is right, if you dont try to doo foolish things like this, you should be safe. If you like, simply change the bolts. But be carefull, you really need a high quality 1/4" torque wrench and be sure to not cross thread the Bolts.
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Chesterfield VA
7,000rpm in 6th gear is roughly 130mph with the AP1 gearbox and 132mph with the AP2. Plenty fast!
Theoretical top speeds (before the rev limiter) are 165 and 155. Aero drag is exponential so it can take a looooooooooooog time to ever reach these speeds on level ground.
Honda added these bolts for a reason so it you're ever in there for a reason you may as well fit them.
-- Chuck
Theoretical top speeds (before the rev limiter) are 165 and 155. Aero drag is exponential so it can take a looooooooooooog time to ever reach these speeds on level ground.
Honda added these bolts for a reason so it you're ever in there for a reason you may as well fit them.
-- Chuck
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From: Munich - Germany
But i dont do it often. The S2000 is meant for twisty country or mountain roads. As we all know.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Redondo Beach
That engine # is for a Canada model. The highest '02 Canada VIN is 320, so you're right on the edge. Look for the production date on the big white sticker on the driver's doorframe (it has a maple leaf on it). If it's 5/'02 or later, you're OK. The updated engines were used starting in mid-April.
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From: Madison, WI
Various quotes from Billman below...
I just finished taking the pan off #1023992, and #4 cyl is scored to hell....I have SEEN three seperate cars....not read about on s2ki, this is my own experience...cars with plenty of miles, 20-40k or so, that scored the #4 cylinder within two weeks of going FI (forced induction, whether turbo or supercharged). All these cars were comfirmed to have the old two-hole style oil jet bolts.
If you are FI and you have the old style bolts, you run a serious risk of scoring the cylinder. If you have not scored your cylinders yet, you do not encounter the piston temps of the cars that are having issues due to driving style.
I have found the new style bolts in one engine that was a few hundred or so lower than the suspected engine number of 1025386...I'm pretty sure it was around 1025230. 2000-2001 cars all have the old style bolts. 2003-2009 all have the new style bolts. 2002 was the year of the changover, starting approximately with the ENGINE numbers I have listed.
Each cylinder has one oil jet, mounted to the block at the bottom of the cylinder, that sprays oil under the piston. Each piston has ten little holes in it, that lead from underneath the piston to the lowest ring on the piston....the OIL RING. It is obvious that the new oil jet bolt allows a larger volume of oil to reach the lower oil ring. The oil ring is a 3 piece set. upper and lower scraper rings, and a middle ring that looks like an accordian and holds oil. The new jet bolts MIGHT also affect the spray pattern of the oil as it exits the jet. as the piston moves downward, it mushrooms out the tower of spraying oil, forcing the oil out the ten holes. I BELIEVE it also sevres to cool the piston.
Oil jet bolt replacement requires oil pan removal, windage tray removal, and decent mechanical abilty.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW CASES of people attempting to do the job, and cross threading or stripping the holes in the engine block. The entire engine blocks were garbage at this point and had to be replaced.
A high quality 3/8" drive torque wrench is an absolute must. You cannot set your 1/2" drive torque wrench to the proper torque and try to torque an oil jet bolt. 1/2" drive torque wrenches are not designed to operate in the lowest setting of the wrench. You will, without question, destroy the engine block.
The new oil jet bolts have four oil holes, AND a taller head. they can be identified without removing the jet or bolt itself from the engine. I'm wondering if a borescope can be used after oil draining to identify the new bolts due to the head size.
I can add pics later of the bolts.
If you are FI and you have the old style bolts, you run a serious risk of scoring the cylinder. If you have not scored your cylinders yet, you do not encounter the piston temps of the cars that are having issues due to driving style.
I have found the new style bolts in one engine that was a few hundred or so lower than the suspected engine number of 1025386...I'm pretty sure it was around 1025230. 2000-2001 cars all have the old style bolts. 2003-2009 all have the new style bolts. 2002 was the year of the changover, starting approximately with the ENGINE numbers I have listed.
Each cylinder has one oil jet, mounted to the block at the bottom of the cylinder, that sprays oil under the piston. Each piston has ten little holes in it, that lead from underneath the piston to the lowest ring on the piston....the OIL RING. It is obvious that the new oil jet bolt allows a larger volume of oil to reach the lower oil ring. The oil ring is a 3 piece set. upper and lower scraper rings, and a middle ring that looks like an accordian and holds oil. The new jet bolts MIGHT also affect the spray pattern of the oil as it exits the jet. as the piston moves downward, it mushrooms out the tower of spraying oil, forcing the oil out the ten holes. I BELIEVE it also sevres to cool the piston.
Oil jet bolt replacement requires oil pan removal, windage tray removal, and decent mechanical abilty.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW CASES of people attempting to do the job, and cross threading or stripping the holes in the engine block. The entire engine blocks were garbage at this point and had to be replaced.
A high quality 3/8" drive torque wrench is an absolute must. You cannot set your 1/2" drive torque wrench to the proper torque and try to torque an oil jet bolt. 1/2" drive torque wrenches are not designed to operate in the lowest setting of the wrench. You will, without question, destroy the engine block.
The new oil jet bolts have four oil holes, AND a taller head. they can be identified without removing the jet or bolt itself from the engine. I'm wondering if a borescope can be used after oil draining to identify the new bolts due to the head size.
I can add pics later of the bolts.
Have not seen a scored cyl on any NA car, even those that are tracked. The DECEL on the track has a cooling affect. It's sustained WOT operation that causes the failures. Somehow Forced Induction has the same affect, but you only need to do a WOT run for a short time.
Number 4 cyl failure signs are a metallic rapping sound. Quiet on startup, progressively louder as the car warms up.
Shut the car off while hot and check the compression, the #4 cylinder will have HIGH compression, due to oil flooding of the piston.
Get a long skinny penlight in there. you'll see your numbers.
Number 4 cyl failure signs are a metallic rapping sound. Quiet on startup, progressively louder as the car warms up.
Shut the car off while hot and check the compression, the #4 cylinder will have HIGH compression, due to oil flooding of the piston.
Get a long skinny penlight in there. you'll see your numbers.
Oil jets are for lubrication and cooling of the piston skirt. On the down stroke, the oil spray is mushroomed down (think of Wile-E-Coyote on top of the gyeser) and forced directly into 10 oil feed holes (5 on each skirt) in the underside of the piston. The oil exits the piston just above the skirt, and covers the full width of the shirt. It is the key to cylinder wall lubrication and longevity under high RPM conditions. Anyone who says they are for cooling only is very misinformed.