Any DIY's for Spoon Rigid Collars?
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 8
When I did mine I had a family friend that speaks Japanese explain the instructions to me. She is an older woman that knows nothing about cars. There is some terminology she does not know English word. So it was a bit of figuring things out.
At least according to the instructions, the grease goes on the collars, in thick beads around the top and bottom bases. There is way too much in the tube if it were just for the bolt threads. For the collars it is just right amount.
The instructions say to disconnect the steering. Can you skip this step? Some say yes. I disconnected it.
The basic process:
Lube the collars. Simce its difficult to tell top from bottom of collar once lubed, be careful to stage the collars right side up after you lube them, and be careful not to lose track of orientation as you work
Car secured on stands, remove all 4 wheels
Loosen the 4 subframe corner bolts, lowering them about 30 mm
Now remove the 2 center bolts, loosening each one a little at a time, evenly lowering the subframe.
Place the collars in the 2 center locations, being very careful to note which way is up. Insert bolts, tighten to same 30 mm drop as the others
Now do one corner at a time. Remove bolt, add collar, replace bolt, tighten back to 30 mm
Now tighten each corner, a little at a time, to evenly raise subframe
Now tighten the 2 center bolts
Now torque them all to spec
Now repeat for the other subframe
Note the bolts in all 6 locations are not the same size, and not same size front to back. Make sure correct bolt goes in correct location. Honda says to replace these bolts. So if you want to go by book, buy the bolts.
For the front, instructions say to disconnect the steering column u joint. Be very careful not to let steering wheel spin freely while this joint is disconnected, or you will be buying a very expensive replacement 'clockspring' airbag cable. For the rear I had to disconnect the cover for the evap whatever thing that resides in front of drivers axle.
As you raise subframe, make sure the collar slides into hole in underbody, that collar lip does not hang up on the edge (bolt will become hard to turn prematurely). Just rock the subframe a little as you tighten bolts if this happens.
Its not a difficult DIY, but there are some things to pay attention to. In particular, the up down orientation of the collars. Don't screw this part up. Once they are lubed up its much more difficult to tell which way is up.
At least according to the instructions, the grease goes on the collars, in thick beads around the top and bottom bases. There is way too much in the tube if it were just for the bolt threads. For the collars it is just right amount.
The instructions say to disconnect the steering. Can you skip this step? Some say yes. I disconnected it.
The basic process:
Lube the collars. Simce its difficult to tell top from bottom of collar once lubed, be careful to stage the collars right side up after you lube them, and be careful not to lose track of orientation as you work
Car secured on stands, remove all 4 wheels
Loosen the 4 subframe corner bolts, lowering them about 30 mm
Now remove the 2 center bolts, loosening each one a little at a time, evenly lowering the subframe.
Place the collars in the 2 center locations, being very careful to note which way is up. Insert bolts, tighten to same 30 mm drop as the others
Now do one corner at a time. Remove bolt, add collar, replace bolt, tighten back to 30 mm
Now tighten each corner, a little at a time, to evenly raise subframe
Now tighten the 2 center bolts
Now torque them all to spec
Now repeat for the other subframe
Note the bolts in all 6 locations are not the same size, and not same size front to back. Make sure correct bolt goes in correct location. Honda says to replace these bolts. So if you want to go by book, buy the bolts.
For the front, instructions say to disconnect the steering column u joint. Be very careful not to let steering wheel spin freely while this joint is disconnected, or you will be buying a very expensive replacement 'clockspring' airbag cable. For the rear I had to disconnect the cover for the evap whatever thing that resides in front of drivers axle.
As you raise subframe, make sure the collar slides into hole in underbody, that collar lip does not hang up on the edge (bolt will become hard to turn prematurely). Just rock the subframe a little as you tighten bolts if this happens.
Its not a difficult DIY, but there are some things to pay attention to. In particular, the up down orientation of the collars. Don't screw this part up. Once they are lubed up its much more difficult to tell which way is up.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
I just did the install on my front subframe for my 2008 AP2 with the Manzo USA collar kit.
1. Uninstall the left and right gusset. Check this pic on this thread: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/101...ubframe-bolts/
2. Uninstall the bolt for the steering collar. During my install, it never actually fully disconnected. It just loosened about an inch or so. Mine was already marked but just in case it fully disconnects, make sure to mark it.
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Make sure that there is enough room to install an insert (about 2 inches or so). If not, evenly loosen the four corner bolts again, followed by the middle bolts.
4. Take the middle bolts completely off. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Do not reinstall bolt!! On my car, the center bolt was too short. Even at it's last thread, there wasn't enough space to install the insert in either the front or rear location with the middle bolt back in.
5. Use a Jack to slightly support the rear bolt location. You will need a tiny gap to allow the subframe to drop. Remove the rear bolt completely. Lube and install a "B" labeled insert. Thread the rear bolt back in a little bit and give the Jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
6. Move the jack to the front subframe location. Remove the bolt completely. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Thread the bolt in a little and give the jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5, and 6 for the opposite side.
8. Thread the 4 corner bolts evenly just enough so that the middle bolts can thread back in.
9. At this point, all inserts are installed and all six bolts are threaded but not tightened.
10. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
11. Repeat step 10 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole. I didn't have to shift the subframe at all. It's a slow process but it was worth it in the end.
12. My AP2 came with six 19mm bolts. I torqued them to 85 Ft lbs.
13. Reinstall the bolt back on the steering collar. Good-n-tight is sufficient.
14. Reinstall the left and right gusset. Torque to 28 ft lbs.
1. Uninstall the left and right gusset. Check this pic on this thread: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/101...ubframe-bolts/
2. Uninstall the bolt for the steering collar. During my install, it never actually fully disconnected. It just loosened about an inch or so. Mine was already marked but just in case it fully disconnects, make sure to mark it.
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Make sure that there is enough room to install an insert (about 2 inches or so). If not, evenly loosen the four corner bolts again, followed by the middle bolts.
4. Take the middle bolts completely off. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Do not reinstall bolt!! On my car, the center bolt was too short. Even at it's last thread, there wasn't enough space to install the insert in either the front or rear location with the middle bolt back in.
5. Use a Jack to slightly support the rear bolt location. You will need a tiny gap to allow the subframe to drop. Remove the rear bolt completely. Lube and install a "B" labeled insert. Thread the rear bolt back in a little bit and give the Jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
6. Move the jack to the front subframe location. Remove the bolt completely. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Thread the bolt in a little and give the jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5, and 6 for the opposite side.
8. Thread the 4 corner bolts evenly just enough so that the middle bolts can thread back in.
9. At this point, all inserts are installed and all six bolts are threaded but not tightened.
10. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
11. Repeat step 10 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole. I didn't have to shift the subframe at all. It's a slow process but it was worth it in the end.
12. My AP2 came with six 19mm bolts. I torqued them to 85 Ft lbs.
13. Reinstall the bolt back on the steering collar. Good-n-tight is sufficient.
14. Reinstall the left and right gusset. Torque to 28 ft lbs.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Here's my DIY for the rear subframe:
1. Remove the plastic "aero" piece nearest to the front in the rear subframe on both sides:
2. Disconnect the rear exhaust hanger on both sides:
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Note that since I have the "UK exhaust mod", I had to use a swivel socket extension for the rear corner bolts.
4. Place Jack in this location:
.
5. Remove the Middle and rear bolts. Lower the jack just enough to be able to lube and install two "A" labeled inserts.
6. Jack it up enough to be able to thread the rear bolt a little bit.
7. Move the Jack to front subframe location. Remove the front bolt. Note that I ran into an issue on the left side where it would not lower enough. I found that the two brake hard line brackets had to be unbolted:
8. Install a lubed "B" labeled insert in the front location. Lightly thread the bolt back.
9. Move the jack back to step 3 location. Jack it up enough in order to thread the middle bolt. Tighten all 3 bolts so it matches the other side.
10. Repeat steps 4 thru 9 on the opposite side.
11. At this point you should be back to where you were on step 2. Both left and right sides should be even.
12. If you had to uninstall the brake hard line brackets, do so now. Reinstalling the bracket that was pictured in step 6, was a PITA.
13. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
14. Repeat step 12 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole.
15. Torque the 17mm bolts (middle and rear) to 43 ft lbs
16. Torque the 19mm bolts (front) to 76ft lbs.
17 Reinstall the plastic aero pieces from step 1.
18. Spray with liquid soap and reinstall exhaust hanger from step 2.
1. Remove the plastic "aero" piece nearest to the front in the rear subframe on both sides:
2. Disconnect the rear exhaust hanger on both sides:
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Note that since I have the "UK exhaust mod", I had to use a swivel socket extension for the rear corner bolts.
4. Place Jack in this location:
.5. Remove the Middle and rear bolts. Lower the jack just enough to be able to lube and install two "A" labeled inserts.
6. Jack it up enough to be able to thread the rear bolt a little bit.
7. Move the Jack to front subframe location. Remove the front bolt. Note that I ran into an issue on the left side where it would not lower enough. I found that the two brake hard line brackets had to be unbolted:
8. Install a lubed "B" labeled insert in the front location. Lightly thread the bolt back.
9. Move the jack back to step 3 location. Jack it up enough in order to thread the middle bolt. Tighten all 3 bolts so it matches the other side.
10. Repeat steps 4 thru 9 on the opposite side.
11. At this point you should be back to where you were on step 2. Both left and right sides should be even.
12. If you had to uninstall the brake hard line brackets, do so now. Reinstalling the bracket that was pictured in step 6, was a PITA.
13. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
14. Repeat step 12 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole.
15. Torque the 17mm bolts (middle and rear) to 43 ft lbs
16. Torque the 19mm bolts (front) to 76ft lbs.
17 Reinstall the plastic aero pieces from step 1.
18. Spray with liquid soap and reinstall exhaust hanger from step 2.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,744
Likes: 31
From: Nevada
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: The Netherlands
If you dont disconnect the steering coupler the subframe wouldnt even lower 1 inch all the tension will be on the EPS and crashthingy inside the steering colom itself.
disconnect the coupler and the subframe drops easely 2.5 inches.
disconnect the coupler and the subframe drops easely 2.5 inches.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 160
From: Fremont, CA
When I did mine I had a family friend that speaks Japanese explain the instructions that came in the kit to me. She is an older woman that knows nothing about cars. There is some terminology she does not know English word. So it was a bit of figuring things out.
At least according to the instructions, the grease goes on the collars, in thick beads around the top and bottom bases. There is way too much in the tube if it were just for the bolt threads. For the collars it is just right amount.
The instructions say to disconnect the steering joint. Can you skip this step? Some say yes. I disconnected it. Note that I first tried to go without disconnecting, but found I could not lower the front subframe evenly. I found I was not able to do this job without disconnecting steering joint.
Be sure to mark the alignment of joint to shaft, so you can maintain steering wheel alignment when you are done.
The basic process:
Lube the collars. Since its difficult to tell top from bottom of collar once lubed, be careful to stage the collars right side up after you lube them, and be careful not to lose track of orientation as you work
Car secured on stands, remove all 4 wheels
Loosen the 4 subframe corner bolts, lowering them about 30 mm
Now remove the 2 center bolts, loosening each one a little at a time, evenly lowering the subframe.
Place the collars in the 2 center locations, being very careful to note which way is up. Insert bolts, screw in to same 30 mm drop as the others
Now do one corner at a time. Remove bolt, add collar, replace bolt, screw back to 30 mm
Now tighten each corner, a little at a time, to evenly raise subframe, until its seated
Now tighten the 2 center bolts
Now torque them all to spec
Now repeat for the other subframe
Note the bolts in all 6 locations are not the same size, and not same size front to back. Make sure correct bolt goes in correct location. Honda says to replace these bolts. So if you want to go by the book, buy the bolts.
The collars themselves are different sizes, and marked with a letter A, B, etc. There is a diagram in the instructions that is explicitly clear which letter goes in which hole, even though its Japanese.
For the front, instructions say to disconnect the steering column u joint. Be very careful not to let steering wheel spin freely while this joint is disconnected, or you will be buying a very expensive replacement 'clockspring' airbag cable. For the rear I had to disconnect the cover for the evap whatever thing that resides in front of drivers axle.
As you raise subframe (by progressively tightening each corner), make sure the collar slides into hole in underbody, make sure that collar lip does not hang up on the edge (bolt will become hard to turn prematurely). Just rock the subframe a little as you tighten bolts if this happens.
Its not a difficult DIY, but there are some things to pay attention to. In particular, the up down orientation of the collars. Don't screw this part up. Once they are lubed up its much more difficult to tell which way is up.
At least according to the instructions, the grease goes on the collars, in thick beads around the top and bottom bases. There is way too much in the tube if it were just for the bolt threads. For the collars it is just right amount.
The instructions say to disconnect the steering joint. Can you skip this step? Some say yes. I disconnected it. Note that I first tried to go without disconnecting, but found I could not lower the front subframe evenly. I found I was not able to do this job without disconnecting steering joint.
Be sure to mark the alignment of joint to shaft, so you can maintain steering wheel alignment when you are done.
The basic process:
Lube the collars. Since its difficult to tell top from bottom of collar once lubed, be careful to stage the collars right side up after you lube them, and be careful not to lose track of orientation as you work
Car secured on stands, remove all 4 wheels
Loosen the 4 subframe corner bolts, lowering them about 30 mm
Now remove the 2 center bolts, loosening each one a little at a time, evenly lowering the subframe.
Place the collars in the 2 center locations, being very careful to note which way is up. Insert bolts, screw in to same 30 mm drop as the others
Now do one corner at a time. Remove bolt, add collar, replace bolt, screw back to 30 mm
Now tighten each corner, a little at a time, to evenly raise subframe, until its seated
Now tighten the 2 center bolts
Now torque them all to spec
Now repeat for the other subframe
Note the bolts in all 6 locations are not the same size, and not same size front to back. Make sure correct bolt goes in correct location. Honda says to replace these bolts. So if you want to go by the book, buy the bolts.
The collars themselves are different sizes, and marked with a letter A, B, etc. There is a diagram in the instructions that is explicitly clear which letter goes in which hole, even though its Japanese.
For the front, instructions say to disconnect the steering column u joint. Be very careful not to let steering wheel spin freely while this joint is disconnected, or you will be buying a very expensive replacement 'clockspring' airbag cable. For the rear I had to disconnect the cover for the evap whatever thing that resides in front of drivers axle.
As you raise subframe (by progressively tightening each corner), make sure the collar slides into hole in underbody, make sure that collar lip does not hang up on the edge (bolt will become hard to turn prematurely). Just rock the subframe a little as you tighten bolts if this happens.
Its not a difficult DIY, but there are some things to pay attention to. In particular, the up down orientation of the collars. Don't screw this part up. Once they are lubed up its much more difficult to tell which way is up.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 160
From: Fremont, CA
I just did the install on my front subframe for my 2008 AP2 with the Manzo USA collar kit.
1. Uninstall the left and right gusset. Check this pic on this thread: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/101...ubframe-bolts/
2. Uninstall the bolt for the steering collar. During my install, it never actually fully disconnected. It just loosened about an inch or so. Mine was already marked but just in case it fully disconnects, make sure to mark it.
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Make sure that there is enough room to install an insert (about 2 inches or so). If not, evenly loosen the four corner bolts again, followed by the middle bolts.
4. Take the middle bolts completely off. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Do not reinstall bolt!! On my car, the center bolt was too short. Even at it's last thread, there wasn't enough space to install the insert in either the front or rear location with the middle bolt back in.
5. Use a Jack to slightly support the rear bolt location. You will need a tiny gap to allow the subframe to drop. Remove the rear bolt completely. Lube and install a "B" labeled insert. Thread the rear bolt back in a little bit and give the Jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
6. Move the jack to the front subframe location. Remove the bolt completely. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Thread the bolt in a little and give the jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5, and 6 for the opposite side.
8. Thread the 4 corner bolts evenly just enough so that the middle bolts can thread back in.
9. At this point, all inserts are installed and all six bolts are threaded but not tightened.
10. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
11. Repeat step 10 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole. I didn't have to shift the subframe at all. It's a slow process but it was worth it in the end.
12. My AP2 came with six 19mm bolts. I torqued them to 85 Ft lbs.
13. Reinstall the bolt back on the steering collar. Good-n-tight is sufficient.
14. Reinstall the left and right gusset. Torque to 28 ft lbs.
1. Uninstall the left and right gusset. Check this pic on this thread: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/101...ubframe-bolts/
2. Uninstall the bolt for the steering collar. During my install, it never actually fully disconnected. It just loosened about an inch or so. Mine was already marked but just in case it fully disconnects, make sure to mark it.
3. Loosen the four corner bolts so that they are all evenly backed out. Loosen the middle bolts evenly until it reaches where the 4 corner bolts were loosened to. Make sure that there is enough room to install an insert (about 2 inches or so). If not, evenly loosen the four corner bolts again, followed by the middle bolts.
4. Take the middle bolts completely off. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Do not reinstall bolt!! On my car, the center bolt was too short. Even at it's last thread, there wasn't enough space to install the insert in either the front or rear location with the middle bolt back in.
5. Use a Jack to slightly support the rear bolt location. You will need a tiny gap to allow the subframe to drop. Remove the rear bolt completely. Lube and install a "B" labeled insert. Thread the rear bolt back in a little bit and give the Jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
6. Move the jack to the front subframe location. Remove the bolt completely. Lube and install an "A" labeled insert. Thread the bolt in a little and give the jack one small pump. Thread the bolt so that it's even with the rest of the 4 corner bolts.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5, and 6 for the opposite side.
8. Thread the 4 corner bolts evenly just enough so that the middle bolts can thread back in.
9. At this point, all inserts are installed and all six bolts are threaded but not tightened.
10. Evenly tighten the middle bolts to a certain point. Tighten the 4 corner bolts to catch up to where you tightened the middle bolts.
11. Repeat step 10 until all six bolts are bottomed out. By following this method, I didn't have any issues "centering" the inserts back in the hole. I didn't have to shift the subframe at all. It's a slow process but it was worth it in the end.
12. My AP2 came with six 19mm bolts. I torqued them to 85 Ft lbs.
13. Reinstall the bolt back on the steering collar. Good-n-tight is sufficient.
14. Reinstall the left and right gusset. Torque to 28 ft lbs.
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 3
Can someone tell me which way is up. It looks like the short end with the he's very taper God up and the longer, striaghter end goes down (into the subframe). Is this correct?
I've got the tears in place but I'm have a slight problem getting them to slide into the frame.
Thanks for the help.
I've got the tears in place but I'm have a slight problem getting them to slide into the frame.
Thanks for the help.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 160
From: Fremont, CA
Can someone tell me which way is up. It looks like the short end with the he's very taper God up and the longer, striaghter end goes down (into the subframe). Is this correct?
I've got the tears in place but I'm have a slight problem getting them to slide into the frame.
Thanks for the help.
I've got the tears in place but I'm have a slight problem getting them to slide into the frame.
Thanks for the help.