Ap1 Needs saving! Low Compression
12-11-2013, 01:33 PM
#1
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Ap1 Needs saving! Low Compression
car came back from the dealership, they quoted me 8,000$ for the repair. I was thinking about selling my car, but I cannot part with my beautiful MY AP1... Please scroll down to my last posting to help
12-11-2013, 08:02 PM
#2
You need to be *way* more specific.
What are they trying to diagnose? Noise while driving? Odd engine noise at 3k RPM? Axle clicking?
I think it's somewhat obvious, some things take longer to track down, replicate, and troubleshoot than others.
What are they trying to diagnose? Noise while driving? Odd engine noise at 3k RPM? Axle clicking?
I think it's somewhat obvious, some things take longer to track down, replicate, and troubleshoot than others.
12-12-2013, 12:02 AM
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They are trying to diagnosis a random misfire in all cylinders. They did a compression test yesterday afternoon and said my numbers where within spec. 205 175 180 175, I don't understand why cylinder 1 is so high compared to the others. But this is the second day it's been there already. I have no idea what they are doing in between
12-12-2013, 04:09 AM
#4
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8 hours is morbidly WAY TOO MUCH time to diagnose a simple misfire. 2 hours top2 is all you need for even the most in depth of tests.
They are incompetent, plain and simple.
Ask them what direction the fuel trim is leaning. I assure you they wont know what you are talking about, and that will be your cue to find someone who can diagnose it.
They are incompetent, plain and simple.
Ask them what direction the fuel trim is leaning. I assure you they wont know what you are talking about, and that will be your cue to find someone who can diagnose it.
12-12-2013, 04:36 AM
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8 hours is morbidly WAY TOO MUCH time to diagnose a simple misfire. 2 hours top2 is all you need for even the most in depth of tests.
They are incompetent, plain and simple.
Ask them what direction the fuel trim is leaning. I assure you they wont know what you are talking about, and that will be your cue to find someone who can diagnose it.
They are incompetent, plain and simple.
Ask them what direction the fuel trim is leaning. I assure you they wont know what you are talking about, and that will be your cue to find someone who can diagnose it.
Most autoparts stores have an OBD2 reader, the Autozone I am a manager at has the "nicer" model that can read live data. You want the fuel trim numbers and if they are positive or negative. Finding this out and posting it up is more likely to get help than paying out the ass the a stealership full of college dropout mechanics. Ask me how I know...
12-12-2013, 08:10 AM
#6
Dealerships don't diagnose issues, they replace parts until the problem goes away, or the customer does (runs out of money).
They just change the part they guess to be most likely to cause the issue you complained about.
Each dealership has a target dollar amount (that varies depending on how end the brand) that each vehicle that passes through their service bays should meet. If the problem is simple and the repair total is below that amount, they look for any way to pad things out or find other 'issues' they can upcharge for.
While your local mechanic might try to find the least costly solution to an issue, the dealership does the opposite.
The dealership is the worst place to bring your car for repair. They are much more likely to screw things up, will never, ever admit anything is their fault.
They just change the part they guess to be most likely to cause the issue you complained about.
Each dealership has a target dollar amount (that varies depending on how end the brand) that each vehicle that passes through their service bays should meet. If the problem is simple and the repair total is below that amount, they look for any way to pad things out or find other 'issues' they can upcharge for.
While your local mechanic might try to find the least costly solution to an issue, the dealership does the opposite.
The dealership is the worst place to bring your car for repair. They are much more likely to screw things up, will never, ever admit anything is their fault.
12-12-2013, 04:33 PM
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I got the car back from the dealership today, they quoted me 8000 for the repair. I have three options.
Recommended factory plugs to be installed. Plugs in vehicle were not the correct heat rating. Performed leak down test and found CYL 1 OK. CYL 2 had a bad piston ring. CYL 3 had a bad piston ring. Cyl 4 had a bad head exhaust valve. Recommended new/used engine assembly. Customer declined at this time. Customer only to pay for spark plug installment" (Honda).
Alternative 1
Part list for Used engine install.
Coolant (typ2B)----19.23
Honda Bond ---19.68
Used 77k Engine----4875
Oil, Synblnd ---5.00
Gasket Set ---45.73
Filter Oil ---14.89
Gasket, IN. MAN ---20.78
Gasket, EX. MAN ---16.05
Hondabond HT ---19.68
Gasket, EX. FLE ---45.90
Water pump set ---195.94
Thermostat ASSY ---54.27
Hose, Water (up)---36.20
Hose, Water (lo)---36.20
Oil Seal (43x58)---19.75
Oil Seal (80x98)---25.30
Washer, Drain --.37
Used Engine at 77k-4875.00
Total with labor---7700
Total parts 5865.02
Alternative 2
Gasket Kit, CYL---266.60
HP06111 Gasket Kit-35.32
Engine Assy., B----4282.21
Pump Assy,. Oil----364.37
Total Parts w/ labor-8,050
I want to rebuild the engine rather than swapping another engine into this car; mainly because I'm afraid of the other engine also failing or will come with cracked retainers, spun bearings, etc. If CYL 2 and CYL 3 has bad piston ring, why do I need to replace the whole block. I just don't understand. A piston ring set is only 37.81$ from hondapartscheap.com. Lastly, how does this happen? I never over-revved. I understand that a mechanical over-rev can cause a bent exhaust valve, but what is the cause for a leaking piston ring in cylinders 2 and 3?
Car: 2001 Honda s2000
K&N Air filter
All stock
94,000 Miles
New plugs, valve adjustment, and valve gasket.
1. Sell the car, and buy an Ap2
2. Buy a used engine
3. Rebuild my current engine
Quote From Honda Dealership: "Customer states MIL light came on. Check and advise 49.95.2. Buy a used engine
3. Rebuild my current engine
Recommended factory plugs to be installed. Plugs in vehicle were not the correct heat rating. Performed leak down test and found CYL 1 OK. CYL 2 had a bad piston ring. CYL 3 had a bad piston ring. Cyl 4 had a bad head exhaust valve. Recommended new/used engine assembly. Customer declined at this time. Customer only to pay for spark plug installment" (Honda).
Alternative 1
Part list for Used engine install.
Coolant (typ2B)----19.23
Honda Bond ---19.68
Used 77k Engine----4875
Oil, Synblnd ---5.00
Gasket Set ---45.73
Filter Oil ---14.89
Gasket, IN. MAN ---20.78
Gasket, EX. MAN ---16.05
Hondabond HT ---19.68
Gasket, EX. FLE ---45.90
Water pump set ---195.94
Thermostat ASSY ---54.27
Hose, Water (up)---36.20
Hose, Water (lo)---36.20
Oil Seal (43x58)---19.75
Oil Seal (80x98)---25.30
Washer, Drain --.37
Used Engine at 77k-4875.00
Total with labor---7700
Total parts 5865.02
Alternative 2
Gasket Kit, CYL---266.60
HP06111 Gasket Kit-35.32
Engine Assy., B----4282.21
Pump Assy,. Oil----364.37
Total Parts w/ labor-8,050
I want to rebuild the engine rather than swapping another engine into this car; mainly because I'm afraid of the other engine also failing or will come with cracked retainers, spun bearings, etc. If CYL 2 and CYL 3 has bad piston ring, why do I need to replace the whole block. I just don't understand. A piston ring set is only 37.81$ from hondapartscheap.com. Lastly, how does this happen? I never over-revved. I understand that a mechanical over-rev can cause a bent exhaust valve, but what is the cause for a leaking piston ring in cylinders 2 and 3?
Car: 2001 Honda s2000
K&N Air filter
All stock
94,000 Miles
New plugs, valve adjustment, and valve gasket.
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12-13-2013, 08:08 AM
#9
Well that price they quoted will motivate you to have another shop look at the car.
There is a ap1 down the street from me for 9500 Has some issues but thats the whole car.
I would suspect even bad rings could be replaced without removing the motor. From bottom. Not sure. That estimate is crazy have someone else look it over. So Im thinking recheck leakdown by someone else.
Has anyone replaced rings from bottom without removing whole motor?
With the miles on your motor I would have someone else do test before spending another dime.
There is a ap1 down the street from me for 9500 Has some issues but thats the whole car.
I would suspect even bad rings could be replaced without removing the motor. From bottom. Not sure. That estimate is crazy have someone else look it over. So Im thinking recheck leakdown by someone else.
Has anyone replaced rings from bottom without removing whole motor?
With the miles on your motor I would have someone else do test before spending another dime.
12-13-2013, 09:01 AM
#10
Rings cannot be replaced from the bottom. The head HAS to come off. Also, redoing the bearings would be a wise idea and those are much much easier to do with the engine out and on a stand.
There is no guarantee that his sleeves are even good enough to re-ring it.
OP- If you're confident that those are the actual issues, I'd look into finding a low milage mid 02 through 03 AP1 motor or an 04-05 short block. Chances are your head is salvageable and if there is a burnt valve, it's a matter of replacing one valve and then cleaning up all the others and their seats. Please update this thread as you move along. Good luck.
There is no guarantee that his sleeves are even good enough to re-ring it.
OP- If you're confident that those are the actual issues, I'd look into finding a low milage mid 02 through 03 AP1 motor or an 04-05 short block. Chances are your head is salvageable and if there is a burnt valve, it's a matter of replacing one valve and then cleaning up all the others and their seats. Please update this thread as you move along. Good luck.