S2000 Under The Hood S2000 Technical and Mechanical discussions.

AP1 running rough, HELP

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Old Jun 13, 2012 | 11:54 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by davidc1
Originally Posted by LAp1' timestamp='1339593205' post='21777845
[quote name='davidc1' timestamp='1339532204' post='21776061']
[quote name='LAp1' timestamp='1339521492' post='21775503']
[quote name='davidc1' timestamp='1339510478' post='21774949']
[quote name='LAp1' timestamp='1339506741' post='21774774']
Ok checked the coil packs yesterday, they were fine. Even though its running much better, the car still seems to be using an assload of fuel. I'm also noticing that after a somewhat extended period of driving, 30-45 minutes, the idle seems to become worse and worse. Feels like the shaking that I'm feeling thru the clutch and gas pedal become a rattle towards the end of those drives. If I get a chance for lunch today I will yank the primary O2 sensor and see if its a bad cat. I read up that it's sometimes hell to get the O2 sensor off so we'll see what I can do. If not that, I'll double check the throttle cable for looseness. Could this shaking possibly be caused by a bad motor mount? Just taking a wild, somewhat-educated guess.
Do you have an android phone and a bluetooth OBDII adaptor? If so, you can use the app Torque to check your O2 sensor. But, that isn't the cause of our vibration through the clutch pedal. That could be caused by a bad clutch, loose flywheel, or bearings. Could be motor mount as well.

I think you're almost at the point of having a mechanic look at it.
Nope, iphone4 actually. I've heard of the Torque app tho, seems pretty cool.

How could I check on the things that you listed after I check my O2 sensor and throttle cable?

I tried the 'bad clutch test' that one guy recommended me, then the next guy said his theory was BS. If you know of a correct way to test for a bad clutch then please feel free to inform me.

Anyway to check the loose flywheel and bearings without having to disassemble the motor even further?

If it's not the O2 sensor or loose throttle cable then I guess I'll be looking for glitter in the oil either by pulling the oil pan or would an oil filter analysis tell me this? I saved my filter from most recent change just incase.

If I do have to pull the oil pan, how hard would it be to check my bearings while the pans off?
[/quote]

The O2 sensor puts out a certain type of voltage trace you look at with an oscilloscope (on the app). I'll see if I can find the tutorial.

I don't think you can do any tests for clutch and flywheel without taking it apart.

You can look at either rod or main bearings when you remove the oil pan, but I don't remember which.

I would remove the pan and see what's in it. If there are any metal shavings, you're toast.
[/quote]


TOAST? As in??
[/quote]


Toast....slang for done, gone, kaput, finished, SOL, etc.
[/quote]


EEK
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Old Jun 13, 2012 | 11:57 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by davidc1
Agree on the valve job.

Even though I know that you just did it yourself, you really can't be sure about how much drag YOU thought was normal with the feeler gauge unless somebody showed you.

Regarding the O2 sensor, not all lazy upstream sensors will give a code right away.

Some people feel 02 sensors are a maintenance item at about 100,000miles regardless. So, mine is coming in the mail today.

I think I mentioned it before, but the best place I've found for O2 sensors is www.oxygensensors.com. My direct OE replacement upstream sensor was just over $65 shipped.

But, that's not your vibration problem.
In regards to the valve adjustment, agreed, I may not have done it perfectly but was just checking for valves that were way out of spec to try and pinpoint my problem.

I'll check out the O2 sensor youtube videos that Mr.T spoke about..

Thanks a bunch for the O2 sensor link!
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Old Jun 13, 2012 | 12:39 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by LAp1
Originally Posted by davidc1' timestamp='1339607422' post='21778630
Agree on the valve job.

Even though I know that you just did it yourself, you really can't be sure about how much drag YOU thought was normal with the feeler gauge unless somebody showed you.

Regarding the O2 sensor, not all lazy upstream sensors will give a code right away.

Some people feel 02 sensors are a maintenance item at about 100,000miles regardless. So, mine is coming in the mail today.

I think I mentioned it before, but the best place I've found for O2 sensors is www.oxygensensors.com. My direct OE replacement upstream sensor was just over $65 shipped.

But, that's not your vibration problem.
In regards to the valve adjustment, agreed, I may not have done it perfectly but was just checking for valves that were way out of spec to try and pinpoint my problem.

I'll check out the O2 sensor youtube videos that Mr.T spoke about..

Thanks a bunch for the O2 sensor link!
lap1, in direct address to your funny idle problem, i also found a good sized vac leak while i was removing my valve cover for my leak down test/valve job. now that you have the helm manual try tracing as much of the vac system as possible and see if you find anything loose. some people resort to spraying starter fluid around the motor
and listening for changes in idle. there are tons of youtube videos on finding vac leaks too.
if i were you i'd find a specialist that has dyno access. i'm new to them but it amazed me that after about 5 minutes my guy figured out a problem i'd been chasing for 3 weeks. i'd just hate to see you throw loot into a problem that doesn't exist.
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Old Jun 13, 2012 | 01:20 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by MR.T
Originally Posted by LAp1' timestamp='1339617454' post='21779129
[quote name='davidc1' timestamp='1339607422' post='21778630']
Agree on the valve job.

Even though I know that you just did it yourself, you really can't be sure about how much drag YOU thought was normal with the feeler gauge unless somebody showed you.

Regarding the O2 sensor, not all lazy upstream sensors will give a code right away.

Some people feel 02 sensors are a maintenance item at about 100,000miles regardless. So, mine is coming in the mail today.

I think I mentioned it before, but the best place I've found for O2 sensors is www.oxygensensors.com. My direct OE replacement upstream sensor was just over $65 shipped.

But, that's not your vibration problem.
In regards to the valve adjustment, agreed, I may not have done it perfectly but was just checking for valves that were way out of spec to try and pinpoint my problem.

I'll check out the O2 sensor youtube videos that Mr.T spoke about..

Thanks a bunch for the O2 sensor link!
lap1, in direct address to your funny idle problem, i also found a good sized vac leak while i was removing my valve cover for my leak down test/valve job. now that you have the helm manual try tracing as much of the vac system as possible and see if you find anything loose. some people resort to spraying starter fluid around the motor
and listening for changes in idle. there are tons of youtube videos on finding vac leaks too.
if i were you i'd find a specialist that has dyno access. i'm new to them but it amazed me that after about 5 minutes my guy figured out a problem i'd been chasing for 3 weeks. i'd just hate to see you throw loot into a problem that doesn't exist.
[/quote]

thanks man!

will check O2 sensor, throttle cable, and vac leaks. if nothing, then ill start looking for a specialist with a dyno. but hell...i wasnt even able to find a specialist besides one with a dyno lol
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Old Jun 13, 2012 | 07:14 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by LAp1
Originally Posted by davidc1' timestamp='1339607422' post='21778630
Agree on the valve job.

Even though I know that you just did it yourself, you really can't be sure about how much drag YOU thought was normal with the feeler gauge unless somebody showed you.

Regarding the O2 sensor, not all lazy upstream sensors will give a code right away.

Some people feel 02 sensors are a maintenance item at about 100,000miles regardless. So, mine is coming in the mail today.

I think I mentioned it before, but the best place I've found for O2 sensors is www.oxygensensors.com. My direct OE replacement upstream sensor was just over $65 shipped.

But, that's not your vibration problem.
In regards to the valve adjustment, agreed, I may not have done it perfectly but was just checking for valves that were way out of spec to try and pinpoint my problem.

I'll check out the O2 sensor youtube videos that Mr.T spoke about..

Thanks a bunch for the O2 sensor link!

Here is an excellent, really really good article on O2 sensors and how they work and how to test them.

http://www.autodiagnosticsandpublish...or-testing.htm

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Old Jun 14, 2012 | 05:10 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by davidc1
Originally Posted by LAp1' timestamp='1339617454' post='21779129
[quote name='davidc1' timestamp='1339607422' post='21778630']
Agree on the valve job.

Even though I know that you just did it yourself, you really can't be sure about how much drag YOU thought was normal with the feeler gauge unless somebody showed you.

Regarding the O2 sensor, not all lazy upstream sensors will give a code right away.

Some people feel 02 sensors are a maintenance item at about 100,000miles regardless. So, mine is coming in the mail today.

I think I mentioned it before, but the best place I've found for O2 sensors is www.oxygensensors.com. My direct OE replacement upstream sensor was just over $65 shipped.

But, that's not your vibration problem.
In regards to the valve adjustment, agreed, I may not have done it perfectly but was just checking for valves that were way out of spec to try and pinpoint my problem.

I'll check out the O2 sensor youtube videos that Mr.T spoke about..

Thanks a bunch for the O2 sensor link!

Here is an excellent, really really good article on O2 sensors and how they work and how to test them.

http://www.autodiagnosticsandpublish...or-testing.htm
[/quote]

thanks david!

ill read up on this and do some research into how clutch systems work.
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Old Jun 15, 2012 | 05:33 AM
  #117  
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did some reading up on clutch systems yesterday and I'm now thinking that a malfunctioning clutch may be a problem, or the problem. anyone know how to effectively test a clutch system without dyno'ing the car?
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Old Jun 15, 2012 | 06:24 AM
  #118  
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ive been reading around and some guys with bad throw-out bearings are having similar symptoms as I am...

bad fuel economy
heavy buzzing sound and pedal vibrations on decel
clutch 'sticks' sometimes...ill press in clutch pedal and have to wait a second or two to be able to move the shifter
having to rev higher than normal to take off, sometimes up to 3500k :/

Maybe this whole time my problem has actually been a power transmission/clutch problem and I was thinking I was having motor problems that were causing my clutch to feel funny. Not sure which one was the cause and which one was the effect, just trying to shed some light on the situation.

let me know if im sounding like a fool or not haha
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Old Jun 16, 2012 | 01:24 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by LAp1
ive been reading around and some guys with bad throw-out bearings are having similar symptoms as I am...

bad fuel economy
heavy buzzing sound and pedal vibrations on decel
clutch 'sticks' sometimes...ill press in clutch pedal and have to wait a second or two to be able to move the shifter
having to rev higher than normal to take off, sometimes up to 3500k :/

Maybe this whole time my problem has actually been a power transmission/clutch problem and I was thinking I was having motor problems that were causing my clutch to feel funny. Not sure which one was the cause and which one was the effect, just trying to shed some light on the situation.

let me know if im sounding like a fool or not haha
from one fool to another, no you don't sound like a fool, haha. I think that can very well be your problem.

Our clutches are not completely gone, so I guess that's why they weren't showing the obvious signs. Mine was due more to a bad pressure plate and if yours is throw out bearing related, it would kind of make since that we're not experiencing traditional slip/burning clutch smell, as the disc still has some meat on it.

My advice to you would be to get up with your local s2k community and seek out a guru, tell them what you've done so far and what you think it is, then let them take it from there. I don't think removing a clutch for inspection is that hard, but it almost doesn't make sense to pay for that labor but not install new parts. so besides the dyno, I have no answer for diagnosing our situations.

I'll def let you guys know how it goes once I get my s back on the road. Should be a little later this week.
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Old Jun 16, 2012 | 05:14 PM
  #120  
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Ageed. I believe the labor for the clutch is about twice the price of parts....
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