Ballade Timing Chain Tensioner (TCT) Install
08-18-2014, 04:50 AM
#41
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I guess it's time to apologise (ignoring the spelling check, I want the "s") to the OP.
Sorry for (what looks like) a thread hijack.
Anyway....
The main issue I have with people claiming this-that-and-the-other about the TCT is that they should back-up their claims.
IMO you can't just say "The OEM part is crap, mine / ours is better, BUY IT! and don't even think about asking questions" without explaining anything.
To the best of my knowledge I have explained what I think is "wrong" with the TCT and what I did to improve it.
If the extra room (the groove in the TCT body and the bigger oil channels) for the oil would not have worked I would have modified the oil channel in the head.
A lot more work as you have to make sure no cuttings enter the engine (duh).
I think it IS possible to modify the oil channel because the TCT oil feed comes from the VTEC solenoid - so that part can be cleaned afterwards.
Once you make sure no cuttings can fall into the timing chain area you're safe.
The oil channel in the head is IMO the reason why some engines never have any TCT issues and some do all the time.
When you look at how the oil channel enters the TCT mounting hole you'll see that even a small leftover burr could have an influence on the oil flow.
Yes, in my engine there was a very small burr, as the channel is drilled first and the TCT mounting hole is machined afterwards.
Any experienced machinist will agree that, even with the sharpest cutting tool, its easy to leave a burr machining alu.
Oh well....
Sorry for (what looks like) a thread hijack.
Anyway....
The main issue I have with people claiming this-that-and-the-other about the TCT is that they should back-up their claims.
IMO you can't just say "The OEM part is crap, mine / ours is better, BUY IT! and don't even think about asking questions" without explaining anything.
To the best of my knowledge I have explained what I think is "wrong" with the TCT and what I did to improve it.
If the extra room (the groove in the TCT body and the bigger oil channels) for the oil would not have worked I would have modified the oil channel in the head.
A lot more work as you have to make sure no cuttings enter the engine (duh).
I think it IS possible to modify the oil channel because the TCT oil feed comes from the VTEC solenoid - so that part can be cleaned afterwards.
Once you make sure no cuttings can fall into the timing chain area you're safe.
The oil channel in the head is IMO the reason why some engines never have any TCT issues and some do all the time.
When you look at how the oil channel enters the TCT mounting hole you'll see that even a small leftover burr could have an influence on the oil flow.
Yes, in my engine there was a very small burr, as the channel is drilled first and the TCT mounting hole is machined afterwards.
Any experienced machinist will agree that, even with the sharpest cutting tool, its easy to leave a burr machining alu.
Oh well....
07-24-2015, 05:16 PM
#43
It has no pin, so no.
07-27-2015, 09:51 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by echofilter' timestamp='1406269058' post='23258778
Billman..........he has gone through multiple iterations (I think I've seen people say it's up to IV?)
07-27-2015, 10:40 PM
#45
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+1
Not sure if brave or stupid on my part, but I was having issues with TCT rattle like many and attempted this mod ghetto style.
I unfortunately don't have photos but it's pretty much as the images above show except I only filed out a channel 1mm deep and drilled out the hole to be 3mm wide. Cleaned up as much as I could to make sure no filings got into the engine.
Topped up oil and drove around and the rattle definitely went away. Many props for the jacked thread!
Not sure if brave or stupid on my part, but I was having issues with TCT rattle like many and attempted this mod ghetto style.
I unfortunately don't have photos but it's pretty much as the images above show except I only filed out a channel 1mm deep and drilled out the hole to be 3mm wide. Cleaned up as much as I could to make sure no filings got into the engine.
Topped up oil and drove around and the rattle definitely went away. Many props for the jacked thread!
07-27-2015, 11:14 PM
#46
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So from how I understand Spitfire, he's asking what the design goal was behind Ballade's redesign.
Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere but this is how I understand the TCT issue, the tensioner works by pressing a piston against part 17 in the honda part catalogue which presses the timing chain directly. The ticking or rattle that comes up is from loss of pressure against the chain causing it to get loose and rattle against the engine body.
What Spitfire's asking is what's causing that loss of pressure and is debating oil pressure being the indirect cause. Looking at the Ballade TCT parts, the only obvious difference are the springs being beefier which suggest increased spring tension being their solution.
Spitfire debates that by increasing oil flow into the worm in the TCT body, pressure is always going to be correct based on driving condition being high or low to accommodate the required tension during any situation as that would accommodate chain stretch and varying RPMs including V-TEC. Spitfire's solution to increasing oil flow was to create a channel inside the TCT between the o-rings and drilling a bigger hole for where the oil enters the unit.
At least that's how I understand it, it's worked for Spitfire and so far it's worked for me too with my ghetto hack job...
Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere but this is how I understand the TCT issue, the tensioner works by pressing a piston against part 17 in the honda part catalogue which presses the timing chain directly. The ticking or rattle that comes up is from loss of pressure against the chain causing it to get loose and rattle against the engine body.
What Spitfire's asking is what's causing that loss of pressure and is debating oil pressure being the indirect cause. Looking at the Ballade TCT parts, the only obvious difference are the springs being beefier which suggest increased spring tension being their solution.
Spitfire debates that by increasing oil flow into the worm in the TCT body, pressure is always going to be correct based on driving condition being high or low to accommodate the required tension during any situation as that would accommodate chain stretch and varying RPMs including V-TEC. Spitfire's solution to increasing oil flow was to create a channel inside the TCT between the o-rings and drilling a bigger hole for where the oil enters the unit.
At least that's how I understand it, it's worked for Spitfire and so far it's worked for me too with my ghetto hack job...
07-28-2015, 06:40 AM
#47
07-28-2015, 06:58 AM
#48
Not sure about this... but wouldn't increasing the diameter of oil passageways actually decrease the pressure in those lines? Kinda like using a bigger diameter garden hose. More water passes, but at lower pressure.
07-28-2015, 10:33 AM
#50
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