GreenMarine

Service advisor says they are ordering bearings and a new 3rd gear for my car. However, these parts are on national backorder so they are also trying to get a brand new transmission. This work has been signed off on by Honda for warranty coverage.

Any idea of what problem they might be looking at? What could have caused this? This is for the deceleration noise that I thought was due to the TSB on the clutch housing. I haven't talked to my service advisor today so I haven't been able to find out if he knew what the cause might be?

I don't think I have ever done anything that would be an "operator error" but my knowledge of the workings of the transmission is at the "driver/enthusiast" status, not a technician's.

cmnsnse

Have they torn it down? If not its very hard to tell whats going on. When I needed a tranny they told me 2 to 3 weeks, and that it would come from Japan, that's a bunch of crap because when I didnt need it, it took 4 days to get a new tranny to me!

I think that the tech line tells the dealership that it is on a 'controlled' backorder so they can keep close tabs on these cars.

How many miles does your car have? The clutch noise is because of the clutch disc. Maybe a manufacturing error?

GreenMarine

I talked to the technician...yes they have the transmission apart.

The car has 4500 miles. The technician said that in his opinion the problem was caused by hard driving. I told him I don't race the car, I don't drop or slip the clutch, and that while I have taken it above VTEC and accelerated hard that it is only with the clutch fully engaged and not outside what would seem to be acceptable behavior for a vehicle like this. I don't slam the shifter, I haven't missed a shift either...

I have, with the clutch fully engaged, taken the car (fully warmed) up to 8500 RPM and shifted, but I've never bounced it off the limiter. I also don't power shift, or chirp the rear wheels. I did chirp them once, when I was learning the car, but I've since found the point at which to properly engage the clutch and accelerate to prevent stress on the diff.

In the opinions of other readers of this forum, could that have caused this problem?

However, I bought it used at 3000 miles. The previous owner might have done something.

I asked the technician if he had examined the drive train and he said yes, I asked if there was any abnormal wear and he said no everything looked fine. He said the clutch looked fine although he wanted to replace that also, because of the service bulletin on it.

He didn't present me with a techincal explanation of how things messed up...I guess I was looking for more something like "well this piece could have rubbed this piece at a certain point causing X to fail." The "hard driving" explanation didn't sit well with me, because he said the rest of the drive train showed no signs of abuse or problems.

What kind of questions should I ask? I'm turning to you guys because of my relative inexperience in this area. Since this work is covered under warranty, I suppose I shouldn't worry but:

1. I want this car to last.
2. I want to treat my car properly. I love this car.
3. I want a good relationship with my dealer.

GreenMarine

Part of my interest in this is that if I did do something to hurt the car, I want to know so that I never do it again. I don't want it to sound like I'm passing the responsibility onto the previous owner, but I also don't want it to seem like I'm ripping up the car when I take it out.

cmnsnse

Heh, ok, so next set of questions:

Have you driven at high speeds and cornered at those speeds?(80+)

Hmm I see you only put 1500 miles on it, do you know if the oil level was low?

I am studying bearing analysis and have found out a lot of really cool things.

One is that when engineers take into account they have an oil pump, they can put higher loads/temps on the bearings. That means they can use different materials also because the forced lubricant really helps out with cooling the bearings.

Im working on this oil pump problem in the S2000 tranny, it looses pressure easily and at high sustained speeds will allow the bearings to overheat. A starved flow leads to an increase in temperature and that leads to a lower viscosity, which in turn leads to even higher temperatures. It's a compounding effect.

If your fluid level was OK, and you haven't driven for extended periods at high speeds then it may just be a materials defect. Its not uncommon for a bearing to have a very short life. They can be compared to lightbulbs or human life, as in there is an average life span BUT some can kick it real early for no apparent reason.

GreenMarine

1. No, I've never cornered fast. I corner at normal traffic speeds. Unless it's a highway mix master or offramp where the normal speed is 50 MPH or something (in which case you are talking about an extended arc).

2. The oil level has always been high. I check oil at every fuel stop and haven't had any problems in that respect.

I have driven to Ft. Worth at 70 MPH, but I suppose you are talking about really high speeds with extended acceleration? I've read about your fluid imbalance problem...are you the same person working on the extended oil intake nozzle? I've never sustained high speeds for very long, so I doubt that is the problem, unless it sets in very quickly.

GreenMarine

cmnsnse,

I reread the threads where you talk about your problem and I'm going to ask the technician a few questions:

1. Were there metal shavings in the bearing?
2. Does there appear to be a lubrication issue in the bearings?
3. Are the synchro rings damaged?
4. Is the transmission fluid pump okay?
5. Are the shift forks okay?
6. Are the springs on the clutch housing ok?

cmnsnse

Good questions, You should know that the smaller the bearing (balls/rollers) the more susceptible they are to damage from small particles (read needle bearings) but the most wear will be seen at the oil pump rotors.

My questions for the tech would be:
1. Is there a misalignment issue indicated by uneven wear? This includes inner and outer raceways of the bearing and also synchro cones?
2. How badly worn is the transmission oil pump rotor assembly? If scored then replace (only about 18 bucks)
3. Was there an adequate amount of fluid in the tranny when removed from the car? (very important)
4. Are the shift forks bent or showing excessive wear?

The clutch is a different issue but it is called the clutch disc 'hub' rather than housing.

The shift forks could have been bent from abuse(previous owner) and possibly caused some wear on the synchro's and synchro sleeve. Maybe even put a little strain on the bearing of 3rd gear it self.

Yeah I'm the guy working on the oil pump extention and a bunch of other things.
And that paticular problem of mine was due to very high extended speeds that didn't allow the bearings to cool with oil flow. However even at 50mph there can be a condition of oil starvation in the trans oil pump under moderate G-loads, BUT I cannot yet say that is a cause of failures(at low speeds). You dont have many miles either.

It would be very difficult to check your tranny fluid at every fuel stop - that's what I meant by oil level.

GreenMarine

I'm depressed, this sucks. Does anyone know how long it would take to have the parts or a transmission arrive.

(I guess this is just a Dostoevskyish sharing of my tooth ache.)

GreenMarine

I went in today to get my insurance information from the car and they showed the transmission to me. I'm not familiar with the parts, but he showed me a rear ring bearing that had wear lines on the inner circumference. The technician said he wasn't sure what the cause was, but it might be defective. He said the transmission fluid pump was fine and the fluid itself was very clean.

My parts come in tomorrow.