bizarro power loss/sputtering issue
11-11-2016, 01:03 PM
#1
bizarro power loss/sputtering issue
Hi fellas,
My car starting acting funny and looking at other threads here, no one seems to have reported this kind of power loss issue.
Recently, my car started to lose power when I accelerated. Almost as if it wanted to stall out but doesn’t quite get there. This happens during acceleration and sometimes coming back to idle at a stop. The motor kind of sound like it’s coughing, I depress the clutch, rev the motor and its fine, go back into gear it’s the same thing. This last about 10 seconds, then the car operates normally
Here is the kicker…as odd as it is..
It ONLY happens when I’m driving the car, I park it for 10-15 mins, and then start it up again.
If I start the car when the motor is cold, it drives totally fine, for hours. But if I shut it down for a little while and come back to start it, I have the issue which again only last 5 to 10 seconds but when you are in traffic or driving you would think the car is just going to die. And when it stops you get kicked back into the seat and the car starts going.
I do have 2 CEL right now, one is the bogus AP1 P0410 (was on before issue started) and recently I got
P0132 (o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1)
Not sure if the o2 sensor is causing this. I’ve driven other cars 50K plus miles on a bad sensor. I can’t imagine it’s the issue but maybe.
I also wonder if it’s the clutch, but it doesn’t slip in VTEC or anything.
Other than this problem, the car runs fine. I have a Bluetooth ODBC reader and torque pro on my phone. Everything looks normal when the car runs. I even did the knock test, revving the motor up to 9K and it reported no detonations.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks fellas!!
My car starting acting funny and looking at other threads here, no one seems to have reported this kind of power loss issue.
Recently, my car started to lose power when I accelerated. Almost as if it wanted to stall out but doesn’t quite get there. This happens during acceleration and sometimes coming back to idle at a stop. The motor kind of sound like it’s coughing, I depress the clutch, rev the motor and its fine, go back into gear it’s the same thing. This last about 10 seconds, then the car operates normally
Here is the kicker…as odd as it is..
It ONLY happens when I’m driving the car, I park it for 10-15 mins, and then start it up again.
If I start the car when the motor is cold, it drives totally fine, for hours. But if I shut it down for a little while and come back to start it, I have the issue which again only last 5 to 10 seconds but when you are in traffic or driving you would think the car is just going to die. And when it stops you get kicked back into the seat and the car starts going.
I do have 2 CEL right now, one is the bogus AP1 P0410 (was on before issue started) and recently I got
P0132 (o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1)
Not sure if the o2 sensor is causing this. I’ve driven other cars 50K plus miles on a bad sensor. I can’t imagine it’s the issue but maybe.
I also wonder if it’s the clutch, but it doesn’t slip in VTEC or anything.
Other than this problem, the car runs fine. I have a Bluetooth ODBC reader and torque pro on my phone. Everything looks normal when the car runs. I even did the knock test, revving the motor up to 9K and it reported no detonations.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks fellas!!
11-11-2016, 02:19 PM
#2
Part of this problem is normal heat soak. The other which may be magnifying the issue is your primary 02 sensor. If memory serves, the bank 1 sensor is the one nearest the engine and has the most influence on how the engine operates in the scenario you described.
Typically after I park my car and come back to it after it sits for 15min or longer, I will either let it run and idle/chug for a min before I leave and let the ecu correct itself, or I will take off and the engine will run lean/choke and I have to put in the clutch and take my foot off the gas for a few seconds and go for it again, by that time its usually sorted itself out to be good to go again.
Typically after I park my car and come back to it after it sits for 15min or longer, I will either let it run and idle/chug for a min before I leave and let the ecu correct itself, or I will take off and the engine will run lean/choke and I have to put in the clutch and take my foot off the gas for a few seconds and go for it again, by that time its usually sorted itself out to be good to go again.
11-11-2016, 02:42 PM
#3
Part of this problem is normal heat soak. The other which may be magnifying the issue is your primary 02 sensor. If memory serves, the bank 1 sensor is the one nearest the engine and has the most influence on how the engine operates in the scenario you described.
Typically after I park my car and come back to it after it sits for 15min or longer, I will either let it run and idle/chug for a min before I leave and let the ecu correct itself, or I will take off and the engine will run lean/choke and I have to put in the clutch and take my foot off the gas for a few seconds and go for it again, by that time its usually sorted itself out to be good to go again.
Typically after I park my car and come back to it after it sits for 15min or longer, I will either let it run and idle/chug for a min before I leave and let the ecu correct itself, or I will take off and the engine will run lean/choke and I have to put in the clutch and take my foot off the gas for a few seconds and go for it again, by that time its usually sorted itself out to be good to go again.
Thanks for the reply..yeah i guess ill replace that o2 sensor and see how she does. My car seems to do what you describe, it has this issue for about 10 seconds then kind of sorts it out and starts going normally. But when its happening,y ou would think the car is gonna almost stall out.
Ill hope its the 02. I also hope its not a bitch to do myself because id rather not pay a mechanic to unscrew a sensor and put a new one in. But after 15 years in the car i dont expect it to come out easy.
11-11-2016, 02:43 PM
#4
So what makes the P0410 code bogus? The ECU is reacting to it. A tiny function of the malfunction indicator light (called the check engine light by some) is to tell us what's wrong. Fix what it tells ya to. That means fix the pump or bypass it with available parts. That may be enough.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
11-11-2016, 02:54 PM
#5
So what makes the P0410 code bogus? The ECU is reacting to it. A tiny function of the malfunction indicator light (called the check engine light by some) is to tell us what's wrong. Fix what it tells ya to. That means fix the pump or bypass it with available parts. That may be enough.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
I call it bogus because all my research here indicates it really has no affect on the cars performance, but maybe what i read was incorrect. And this code was around a while before the issue started. The 02 sensor wasnt even throwing a code when this first happened, but did soon after.
Im interested in the bypass but im not sure i could do it myself. The one thread i looked at seemed to suggest that i would have to wire it into the current ECU harness and i would jack that up royally. here in CT you inspect your car every 2 years and the S just got done so i have time on both codes. But im gonna do the 02 asap.
11-11-2016, 05:57 PM
#6
On your OBD2 scanner if you can find the Lambda value, that's your O2 sensor voltage. You can easily check, a normal O2 sensor will hover around 400mV when the car is at operating temperature, and not in VTEC.
The chugging and low speed hesitation in stop and go traffic is helped tremendously by a new battery. I think it has something to do with battery heat soak, I've been dying to hear from someone with a relocated battery to see if they have this stop and go power drain.
It's almost as if the car doesn't want to use too high a load when temps get a little elevated to prevent a misfire or something. Tell me if you accelerate the car, about 1/4 throttle, does it accelerate normally, but hesitates when you give it 3/4 gas @ around 3,000 rpm? Does it do this, but once it's gotten some airflow it seems like it recovers power?
It could also be that your IAT's are a little high and the computer is pulling timing until the throttle plate opens for a bit and cools the intake manifold.
The chugging and low speed hesitation in stop and go traffic is helped tremendously by a new battery. I think it has something to do with battery heat soak, I've been dying to hear from someone with a relocated battery to see if they have this stop and go power drain.
It's almost as if the car doesn't want to use too high a load when temps get a little elevated to prevent a misfire or something. Tell me if you accelerate the car, about 1/4 throttle, does it accelerate normally, but hesitates when you give it 3/4 gas @ around 3,000 rpm? Does it do this, but once it's gotten some airflow it seems like it recovers power?
It could also be that your IAT's are a little high and the computer is pulling timing until the throttle plate opens for a bit and cools the intake manifold.
11-12-2016, 04:51 AM
#7
On your OBD2 scanner if you can find the Lambda value, that's your O2 sensor voltage. You can easily check, a normal O2 sensor will hover around 400mV when the car is at operating temperature, and not in VTEC.
The chugging and low speed hesitation in stop and go traffic is helped tremendously by a new battery. I think it has something to do with battery heat soak, I've been dying to hear from someone with a relocated battery to see if they have this stop and go power drain.
It's almost as if the car doesn't want to use too high a load when temps get a little elevated to prevent a misfire or something. Tell me if you accelerate the car, about 1/4 throttle, does it accelerate normally, but hesitates when you give it 3/4 gas @ around 3,000 rpm? Does it do this, but once it's gotten some airflow it seems like it recovers power?
It could also be that your IAT's are a little high and the computer is pulling timing until the throttle plate opens for a bit and cools the intake manifold.
The chugging and low speed hesitation in stop and go traffic is helped tremendously by a new battery. I think it has something to do with battery heat soak, I've been dying to hear from someone with a relocated battery to see if they have this stop and go power drain.
It's almost as if the car doesn't want to use too high a load when temps get a little elevated to prevent a misfire or something. Tell me if you accelerate the car, about 1/4 throttle, does it accelerate normally, but hesitates when you give it 3/4 gas @ around 3,000 rpm? Does it do this, but once it's gotten some airflow it seems like it recovers power?
It could also be that your IAT's are a little high and the computer is pulling timing until the throttle plate opens for a bit and cools the intake manifold.
Hey man thanks for the reply. The best way to describe it is ill start the car after parking for a few mins…the idle will immediately crash out but recover. I’ll start to go and yes, about a ¼ way down the motor just starts hesitation, to the point where it stops and starts and you get thrown back in the seat when the car recovers. When it happens I depress the clutch and rev the motor up and the motor seems to rev fine, but back in gear same thing. It doesn’t last long, like maybe 10 seconds max and then the car seems fine and drives normally. When it happens it’s like the car is having a coughing fit to be honest.
I will sit at idle and hit the gas to 9K and the motor revs right up with no misses, nothing. I don’t feel any bumps in power…nothing. It’s a very strange thing that like I said seems to happen ONLY after shutting the car down, coming back 10 mins later and starting to drive again.
I didn’t see that Torque Pro had the lambda value but does throw the code for the upper sensor.
i did run techron and then seafoam through the fuel system to see if i had a clogged up injector but those two things didnt help the issue.
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11-12-2016, 07:09 AM
#8
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0410
Says right there that it causes hesitation on acceleration. I think maybe your car is running too rich and is choking on fuel. Your dead primary O2 may have been a direct result, but definitely now you're not running in closed loop (self-corrected AFR) and having a CEL you have way too much fuel. Fix the codes now or pretty soon your cat will have an issue, too.
Says right there that it causes hesitation on acceleration. I think maybe your car is running too rich and is choking on fuel. Your dead primary O2 may have been a direct result, but definitely now you're not running in closed loop (self-corrected AFR) and having a CEL you have way too much fuel. Fix the codes now or pretty soon your cat will have an issue, too.
11-12-2016, 07:17 AM
#9
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0410
Says right there that it causes hesitation on acceleration. I think maybe your car is running too rich and is choking on fuel. Your dead primary O2 may have been a direct result, but definitely now you're not running in closed loop (self-corrected AFR) and having a CEL you have way too much fuel. Fix the codes now or pretty soon your cat will have an issue, too.
Says right there that it causes hesitation on acceleration. I think maybe your car is running too rich and is choking on fuel. Your dead primary O2 may have been a direct result, but definitely now you're not running in closed loop (self-corrected AFR) and having a CEL you have way too much fuel. Fix the codes now or pretty soon your cat will have an issue, too.
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. Ill work and get those 2 CEL worked out and hope the issue resolves itself. Not sure if i wanna do the bypass on the 0410 or just replace the pump. Pump is pricey but i know nothing about wiring this adapter into the ECU so it looks like ill need the air pump.
11-12-2016, 08:41 AM
#10
I do have 2 CEL right now, one is the bogus AP1 P0410 (was on before issue started) and recently I got
P0132 (o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1)
Not sure if the o2 sensor is causing this. I’ve driven other cars 50K plus miles on a bad sensor. I can’t imagine it’s the issue but maybe.
The #1 sensor is used for closed-loop fuel correction. The car only runs in closed-loop fueling above a certain coolant temp. That explains why it only happens hot. Running cold, the engine will run fine. Once it gets to operating temperature, and starts reading the (bad) O2 sensor to fine-tune fueling, the car runs like crap.
Replace the front O2 sensor. The problem will go away.