zeroptzero

As the title states I'm wondering if these engines can survive some oil starvation, or if that condition always returns and bites you in the end somewhere down the road ?. Can the engine smooth over any parts that may have experienced increased wear such as bearings or cylinder walls with use in the future ?

This summer I had a chance to take my MY02 S2k on a couple of road courses. It was only light lapping at both events, maybe 20-30 minutes worth of lapping each day. I drove about 4k miles this summer and dumped my oil at the end of the season, the oil was used from April to October 2011, running Amsoil 5w30 and new Honda oil filter. I'm pretty sure I experienced some oil starvation at one of the road course events because I had my oil analyzed at the end of the season and my wear metals for lead and iron were way up as compared to the previous season of driving. I believe my 2002 S2K may not have the updated oil jet bolts, I think it missed the switchover point in 2002. I think the highest I've ever revved the car this year was 8600 rpms, never got close to redline. The car is mostly a weekend car, garage kept most of the week.

Iron wear went from 11 ppms (parts per million) last year, to 33 ppms this year, lead went from 1ppm last year to 15 ppms this year. Copper wear was normal, all other metal wear was normal, no fuel dilution, no engine coolant detected, no dirt ingested (silicon). Judging by this it seems like the bearings got some increased wear (lead), as did the cylinders or crank or cams/rockers (iron). I cut open the oil filter and didn't find any large accumulations of metal. The oil colour looked normal, but I didn't look very closely at it when I dumped it as I didn't know there was an issue until it was dumped and the sample sent off for analyzing.

I did not have any oil light come on at any time, no odd noises from the engine, and the engine runs perfectly normal with 60k miles on it. I used maybe 1.25 quarts of oil during the summer season, not much, the car never over-heated. I've driven the car a few times since then and it seems to run perfectly fine since, perfectly smooth, quiet, decent power, no signs of oil burning or coolant loss. One odd thing that did happen after the events was that my thermostat got stuck open this fall and the car would not warm up properly, so I replaced the thermostat, the factory stat had a chunk of aluminum stuck in it which was left over weld material from my Mishimoto radiator that came out of the internals of the rad.

My main concern is if this is the type of event that can cause your engine to suddenly tank one day driving down the road, like we've seen with some of the recent posts on spun bearings and other issues. Any opinions on this would be cool,thanks for reading.

Billman250

This engine can withstand MOMENTARY pressure loss, due to slight air intake through the oil pump due to sloshing. all engines can.

Its when the oil is low enough that the engine can make enough revolutions without oil, push away the remaining oil, and make metal contact.

The crank is supported across a straight line, hence you never see a damaged main bearing.

The rods are individual, and the forces are always opposing. This is why you can immediately spin a rod bearing due to oil starvation.

Keep your oil on the full mark at all times if you drive agressive or track the car, and you will be fine. Of course its good practice to always keep it full.

The saddest thing I learned about the s2k is the difficulty in checking the oil. I have 3 engines under my belt due to IMPROPER reading of the stick, not lack of checking.

If you pull the stick, and it reads perfect on one side, and shows nothing on the other, you HAVE NOTHING. Both sides of the stick must read the same. The reason one side reads and the other does not is because the stick takes a layer of oil off the inside of the engine on the way out.

So note to all, check BOTH SIDES of the stick, always.

Reckon

I would imagine it's on a case by case basis. It could or couldn't hurt you in the future depending on the duration and intensity of the oil starvation. Best thing to do is be pro-active as best as you can to help eliminate the possibility of failure down the road. Keeping an eye on the oil with the UOA seems like a great way to start. Upgrading your jet bolts would be good too. Anything Billman says is also good to follow .

zeroptzero

Thanks for the quick replies from both members above, I appreciate the comments. I think my issue was more of a brief moment of starvation due to sloshing around in corners like Billman250 highlighted, as opposed to long periods caused by low quantities of oil in the sump. Hopefully my UOA was indicator of increased wear but not a major failure of the parts, but I know you'll never have an exact answer without a teardown. I've got to put the oil jets on my "to do" list for sure, Billman250 also hit it on the head with the dipstick reading issue, I've seen that happen many times too. Thanks guys.

SgtB

I've been considering a high temp sight glass on the oil pan. I still find myself eyeballing it a little too much sometimes.

SpitfireS

You're talking about parts per million.
The iron and lead "parts" you are worried about are not bigger than 0.015 mm (0.00059") and most likely a LOT smaller.
It depends a bit on the spectrometer used for the UOA.
I think this is THE perfect example of over-analyzing UOA's.
(no offence)
What is/are the ppm per mile?
I mean, just saying "Omg, there was 33ppm of iron" doens't tell the whole story.
To conclude 33ppm of iron = oil starvation is wrong.
Unless it was 33ppm per mile


Going by your description of how / where this happened there are IMO 2 scenario's:
#1 - your engine - finally - got used the way it was supposed to and the increased load on it - temperature and mechanical load - just woke it up a bit, more oil flowing at higher temps and it washed out old "wear" that was hiding in those places that don't see high temps and oil flow normally.
#2 - your had some extra normal wear.

There is nothing to worrie about.

zeroptzero

Thanks very much for that info. I definitely over-analyze stuff like this and almost to the point of being OCD, lol. No offence taken.

I generally drive the car pretty gingerly, I definitely don't drive it like it was designed to be driven, and it is a garage queen for most of the driving season. So doing two lapping events would have been a huge jump in driving conditions. Hot oil flowing and cleaning sounds like a pretty plausible explanation too as the oil likely never got that hot at any time in the past.

Much appreciated . I do feel better now

slalom44

I agree with Spitfire. There are other engines (not Honda) where your "high" numbers would be considered typical.

Besides - with copper and chromium levels normal you could have gotten high lead and iron from something else. For example: If you made a bunch of short trips, you could have had some moisture in your oil which will cause wear metals (especially iron) to increase. Since copper levels didn't rise, you could have had raised lead levels from some funky fuel additive or a mislabeled tank of leaded gas.

If chromium and copper bumped up with nickel, then I'd think you may have had some temporary starvation (which Billman addresses well).

zeroptzero

Thanks Slalom44, the majority of my driving is short distance for sure. I'm not sure where else the lead could come from, but all other metals in my sample were normal and didn't rise - such as chromium, nickel, tin, bronze,and copper etc... . I did do some driving in the US for the first time, maybe I picked up some bad with lead, we don't typically find such fuel in Canada, but perhaps I picked some up in my travels. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

starchland

I think you've set the bar too high (or low?) in regards to your normal ppm count - I would forsure lean to the harder driving conditions camp, and shame on for not taking her all the way

Ps also running old oil jets - one track day and 2 dragon trips