Coolant bleed problems
04-11-2013, 08:39 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Coolant bleed problems
I've been trying to bleed my car for three days now. I first tried billmans method of using the front bleeder only... Fill radiator with front bleeder open. Heat on high, Idling to operating temp plus one-two min, turn off, open bleeder slowly for air to come out, squeeze upper hose (without letting go) close bleeder, and repeat idle process till no more air.
Didn't work for me. Next I tried vanishing points writeup from helms. Open both bleeder, fill radiator till both flow, turn heat up high, start car and idle with radiator cap off and bleeders open, wait till heat blows hot to cap it all up. Top off coolant as needed.
Tried both and neither worked. With billmans, some air eventually came out when opening bleeder slowly and squeezed upper hose (held while I closed front bleeder). Car didn't overheat after 30 min drive but no heat at all with heater on high.
Next I tried vanishing points and found the bleeder on firewall had no coolant at all running through it. Tried to top up till coolant comes out, nothing happened. Just overflowed my radiator. Next I turned on car with all caps and bleeders open. What a mess. Coolant spewed from the uncapped radiator. All said and done still no heat and no coolant in firewall bleeder.
I'm at wits ends. Fans still turn on so I know the switch is good. Any informed guesses as to what's wrong? As usual, thanks!
Didn't work for me. Next I tried vanishing points writeup from helms. Open both bleeder, fill radiator till both flow, turn heat up high, start car and idle with radiator cap off and bleeders open, wait till heat blows hot to cap it all up. Top off coolant as needed.
Tried both and neither worked. With billmans, some air eventually came out when opening bleeder slowly and squeezed upper hose (held while I closed front bleeder). Car didn't overheat after 30 min drive but no heat at all with heater on high.
Next I tried vanishing points and found the bleeder on firewall had no coolant at all running through it. Tried to top up till coolant comes out, nothing happened. Just overflowed my radiator. Next I turned on car with all caps and bleeders open. What a mess. Coolant spewed from the uncapped radiator. All said and done still no heat and no coolant in firewall bleeder.
I'm at wits ends. Fans still turn on so I know the switch is good. Any informed guesses as to what's wrong? As usual, thanks!
04-12-2013, 06:56 AM
#2
Dont open the bleeders. Get a large funnel that will fit tightly on the radiator. Then put the funnel on the radiator and fill it up with coolant. Turn the car on and heat on to max. Let the fans com on a few times and you should feel the air getting really hot. When the fans com on the thermostat opens and sucks in more coolant and all the air comes out. That's how I did mines.
04-12-2013, 07:24 AM
#3
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Dont open the bleeders. Get a large funnel that will fit tightly on the radiator. Then put the funnel on the radiator and fill it up with coolant. Turn the car on and heat on to max. Let the fans com on a few times and you should feel the air getting really hot. When the fans com on the thermostat opens and sucks in more coolant and all the air comes out. That's how I did mines.
04-12-2013, 07:51 AM
#4
Although the procedures you tried will work (if everything else is working properly) none of them are actually correct.
First, you may have a blockage somewhere in the system. These cars are getting older now and if coolant flushes weren't done at the proper interval, deposits can form in critical places that can create "pinch" points and reduce flow.
Next, you must determine that when you turn your heater knob to full HOT, that the actually heater core valve is going to full OPEN. This is located near the battery and you should be able to see the lever move about 90 degrees from full OFF to full OPEN when you turn the knob on the dash. If it's not opening completely, you're wasting your time trying to bleed the system. Additionally, make sure that the overflow tank system is in good order. Sometimes, a leak can develop between the rad cap neck and the overflow tank neck. That hose can develop cracks as well as the hose nipple fitting on both ends. If that is the case, the coolant system will draw air in the next time it cools down and you'll continually have air in the system.
Next, ensure that your car is on a level surface. This prevents air from getting trapped at the high points.
Start with engine cool or cold (before fan comes on - make sure A/C is OFF but fan on at least 1 light).
Start engine, open rad cap, fill with coolant to top. Even though the stat has not opened, there is still coolant flow through the system. With the engine running, cap off, start with the bleeder near the front of the engine block (below intake manifold). Fluid should come out right away. If not, very gently and carefully increase the rpm slightly till coolant comes out. Close bleeder while coolant is coming out. Have the upper bleeder unclamped and ready to uncap.
Top off rad if necessary. Note that as the engine heats up, the coolant will expand and may begin to overflow. Don't worry about it. Just don't have any animals around that may lick up the coolant. Simply rev the engine slightly and the level will go down. Hopefully, the engine will not have heated up to that point yet (if you're quick up till now). Open the upper bleeder cap and again, rev engine slightly till coolant just starts to come out. Cap it immediately while the coolant is coming out.
Now go top off the rad (cap is still off). Revving the engine very slightly (1200 to 1500 rpm) should cause the coolant level to change. It may go down or it may go up. If it goes down, top it up as full as you can and cap it while revving slightly. If it goes up when you rev it, stop revving it, let the level go back down, top up and cap it.
Make sure the overflow tank is filled to between the MIN and MAX levels. It may take you 2 to 3 heat up and cool down cycles to stabilize. Keep level between the lines from day to day. This may translate to 2 to 3 drives where the coolant gets to operating temp (fan comes on without A/C being used) and then completely cools down (like sitting for several hours or overnight). Leave heater knob to HOT if you can stand it. Next time the engine is cool hose off the places where coolant may have come out. Hose down the ground to protect your animals.
If this still doesn't work, you've got a blockage in the system.
Finally, when you put in new coolant, did you change to a different type of coolant? There have been cases where certain long life coolants were used when the old coolant wasn't completely flushed out (or vica versa). When significant amounts of both types of coolants make contact with each other, they can form a gel plug. This, obviously, is not a good thing.
First, you may have a blockage somewhere in the system. These cars are getting older now and if coolant flushes weren't done at the proper interval, deposits can form in critical places that can create "pinch" points and reduce flow.
Next, you must determine that when you turn your heater knob to full HOT, that the actually heater core valve is going to full OPEN. This is located near the battery and you should be able to see the lever move about 90 degrees from full OFF to full OPEN when you turn the knob on the dash. If it's not opening completely, you're wasting your time trying to bleed the system. Additionally, make sure that the overflow tank system is in good order. Sometimes, a leak can develop between the rad cap neck and the overflow tank neck. That hose can develop cracks as well as the hose nipple fitting on both ends. If that is the case, the coolant system will draw air in the next time it cools down and you'll continually have air in the system.
Next, ensure that your car is on a level surface. This prevents air from getting trapped at the high points.
Start with engine cool or cold (before fan comes on - make sure A/C is OFF but fan on at least 1 light).
Start engine, open rad cap, fill with coolant to top. Even though the stat has not opened, there is still coolant flow through the system. With the engine running, cap off, start with the bleeder near the front of the engine block (below intake manifold). Fluid should come out right away. If not, very gently and carefully increase the rpm slightly till coolant comes out. Close bleeder while coolant is coming out. Have the upper bleeder unclamped and ready to uncap.
Top off rad if necessary. Note that as the engine heats up, the coolant will expand and may begin to overflow. Don't worry about it. Just don't have any animals around that may lick up the coolant. Simply rev the engine slightly and the level will go down. Hopefully, the engine will not have heated up to that point yet (if you're quick up till now). Open the upper bleeder cap and again, rev engine slightly till coolant just starts to come out. Cap it immediately while the coolant is coming out.
Now go top off the rad (cap is still off). Revving the engine very slightly (1200 to 1500 rpm) should cause the coolant level to change. It may go down or it may go up. If it goes down, top it up as full as you can and cap it while revving slightly. If it goes up when you rev it, stop revving it, let the level go back down, top up and cap it.
Make sure the overflow tank is filled to between the MIN and MAX levels. It may take you 2 to 3 heat up and cool down cycles to stabilize. Keep level between the lines from day to day. This may translate to 2 to 3 drives where the coolant gets to operating temp (fan comes on without A/C being used) and then completely cools down (like sitting for several hours or overnight). Leave heater knob to HOT if you can stand it. Next time the engine is cool hose off the places where coolant may have come out. Hose down the ground to protect your animals.
If this still doesn't work, you've got a blockage in the system.
Finally, when you put in new coolant, did you change to a different type of coolant? There have been cases where certain long life coolants were used when the old coolant wasn't completely flushed out (or vica versa). When significant amounts of both types of coolants make contact with each other, they can form a gel plug. This, obviously, is not a good thing.
04-12-2013, 11:11 AM
#5
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I'm with xviper on the possible blockage or malfunctioning valve. If your engine is not over heating but you never have heat, then water is not circulating through the heater core for some reason. When you open the rear bleeder, have you ever gotten a significant amout of coolant?
04-12-2013, 04:06 PM
#6
After air-locking my car's cooling system, I found two ways to bleed it.
1, use an airlift tool to put the entire system in a vacuum and fill it. You can rent the tool or buy one, they aren't horribly expensive. (next change I will bring my airlift home)
2, fill it with both bleeders open, once coolant flows out front bleeder, close it, then get a mity-vac vacuum pump with the small reservoir, put a hose about a foot long on the heater bleed and connect to vac's reservoir. Pump mity vac to fill little reservoir. Once full, stop, dump coolant, and do this 3 more times.
After I did step 2, my car was fine. At first I drove it, and the temp, on a scanner was reading 239, 4 bars on AP1 gauge, and I had to shut the car down and coast. After bleeding temp barely makes 195.
1, use an airlift tool to put the entire system in a vacuum and fill it. You can rent the tool or buy one, they aren't horribly expensive. (next change I will bring my airlift home)
2, fill it with both bleeders open, once coolant flows out front bleeder, close it, then get a mity-vac vacuum pump with the small reservoir, put a hose about a foot long on the heater bleed and connect to vac's reservoir. Pump mity vac to fill little reservoir. Once full, stop, dump coolant, and do this 3 more times.
After I did step 2, my car was fine. At first I drove it, and the temp, on a scanner was reading 239, 4 bars on AP1 gauge, and I had to shut the car down and coast. After bleeding temp barely makes 195.
04-13-2013, 05:34 AM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Although the procedures you tried will work (if everything else is working properly) none of them are actually correct.
First, you may have a blockage somewhere in the system. These cars are getting older now and if coolant flushes weren't done at the proper interval, deposits can form in critical places that can create "pinch" points and reduce flow.
Next, you must determine that when you turn your heater knob to full HOT, that the actually heater core valve is going to full OPEN. This is located near the battery and you should be able to see the lever move about 90 degrees from full OFF to full OPEN when you turn the knob on the dash. If it's not opening completely, you're wasting your time trying to bleed the system. Additionally, make sure that the overflow tank system is in good order. Sometimes, a leak can develop between the rad cap neck and the overflow tank neck. That hose can develop cracks as well as the hose nipple fitting on both ends. If that is the case, the coolant system will draw air in the next time it cools down and you'll continually have air in the system.
Next, ensure that your car is on a level surface. This prevents air from getting trapped at the high points.
Start with engine cool or cold (before fan comes on - make sure A/C is OFF but fan on at least 1 light).
Start engine, open rad cap, fill with coolant to top. Even though the stat has not opened, there is still coolant flow through the system. With the engine running, cap off, start with the bleeder near the front of the engine block (below intake manifold). Fluid should come out right away. If not, very gently and carefully increase the rpm slightly till coolant comes out. Close bleeder while coolant is coming out. Have the upper bleeder unclamped and ready to uncap.
Top off rad if necessary. Note that as the engine heats up, the coolant will expand and may begin to overflow. Don't worry about it. Just don't have any animals around that may lick up the coolant. Simply rev the engine slightly and the level will go down. Hopefully, the engine will not have heated up to that point yet (if you're quick up till now). Open the upper bleeder cap and again, rev engine slightly till coolant just starts to come out. Cap it immediately while the coolant is coming out.
Now go top off the rad (cap is still off). Revving the engine very slightly (1200 to 1500 rpm) should cause the coolant level to change. It may go down or it may go up. If it goes down, top it up as full as you can and cap it while revving slightly. If it goes up when you rev it, stop revving it, let the level go back down, top up and cap it.
Make sure the overflow tank is filled to between the MIN and MAX levels. It may take you 2 to 3 heat up and cool down cycles to stabilize. Keep level between the lines from day to day. This may translate to 2 to 3 drives where the coolant gets to operating temp (fan comes on without A/C being used) and then completely cools down (like sitting for several hours or overnight). Leave heater knob to HOT if you can stand it. Next time the engine is cool hose off the places where coolant may have come out. Hose down the ground to protect your animals.
If this still doesn't work, you've got a blockage in the system.
Finally, when you put in new coolant, did you change to a different type of coolant? There have been cases where certain long life coolants were used when the old coolant wasn't completely flushed out (or vica versa). When significant amounts of both types of coolants make contact with each other, they can form a gel plug. This, obviously, is not a good thing.
First, you may have a blockage somewhere in the system. These cars are getting older now and if coolant flushes weren't done at the proper interval, deposits can form in critical places that can create "pinch" points and reduce flow.
Next, you must determine that when you turn your heater knob to full HOT, that the actually heater core valve is going to full OPEN. This is located near the battery and you should be able to see the lever move about 90 degrees from full OFF to full OPEN when you turn the knob on the dash. If it's not opening completely, you're wasting your time trying to bleed the system. Additionally, make sure that the overflow tank system is in good order. Sometimes, a leak can develop between the rad cap neck and the overflow tank neck. That hose can develop cracks as well as the hose nipple fitting on both ends. If that is the case, the coolant system will draw air in the next time it cools down and you'll continually have air in the system.
Next, ensure that your car is on a level surface. This prevents air from getting trapped at the high points.
Start with engine cool or cold (before fan comes on - make sure A/C is OFF but fan on at least 1 light).
Start engine, open rad cap, fill with coolant to top. Even though the stat has not opened, there is still coolant flow through the system. With the engine running, cap off, start with the bleeder near the front of the engine block (below intake manifold). Fluid should come out right away. If not, very gently and carefully increase the rpm slightly till coolant comes out. Close bleeder while coolant is coming out. Have the upper bleeder unclamped and ready to uncap.
Top off rad if necessary. Note that as the engine heats up, the coolant will expand and may begin to overflow. Don't worry about it. Just don't have any animals around that may lick up the coolant. Simply rev the engine slightly and the level will go down. Hopefully, the engine will not have heated up to that point yet (if you're quick up till now). Open the upper bleeder cap and again, rev engine slightly till coolant just starts to come out. Cap it immediately while the coolant is coming out.
Now go top off the rad (cap is still off). Revving the engine very slightly (1200 to 1500 rpm) should cause the coolant level to change. It may go down or it may go up. If it goes down, top it up as full as you can and cap it while revving slightly. If it goes up when you rev it, stop revving it, let the level go back down, top up and cap it.
Make sure the overflow tank is filled to between the MIN and MAX levels. It may take you 2 to 3 heat up and cool down cycles to stabilize. Keep level between the lines from day to day. This may translate to 2 to 3 drives where the coolant gets to operating temp (fan comes on without A/C being used) and then completely cools down (like sitting for several hours or overnight). Leave heater knob to HOT if you can stand it. Next time the engine is cool hose off the places where coolant may have come out. Hose down the ground to protect your animals.
If this still doesn't work, you've got a blockage in the system.
Finally, when you put in new coolant, did you change to a different type of coolant? There have been cases where certain long life coolants were used when the old coolant wasn't completely flushed out (or vica versa). When significant amounts of both types of coolants make contact with each other, they can form a gel plug. This, obviously, is not a good thing.
To answer your other questions, there were no changes in coolant types. Always Type 2 from Honda. The first time I changed it, about 7-8 years ago when I go the Koyo, I did not have enough coolant (2 bottles and then some) so I used a bit of distilled water. Other than that no changes.
Not sure if it matters but the heater was working before I drained the radiator.
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04-13-2013, 05:35 AM
#8
Member
Thread Starter
I'm with xviper on the possible blockage or malfunctioning valve. If your engine is not over heating but you never have heat, then water is not circulating through the heater core for some reason. When you open the rear bleeder, have you ever gotten a significant amout of coolant?
11-13-2013, 02:54 PM
#9
Dont open the bleeders. Get a large funnel that will fit tightly on the radiator. Then put the funnel on the radiator and fill it up with coolant. Turn the car on and heat on to max. Let the fans com on a few times and you should feel the air getting really hot. When the fans com on the thermostat opens and sucks in more coolant and all the air comes out. That's how I did mines.
how many times did you had to repeat and refill or just once? i am assuming you just have to keep the car running and refill if the coolant gets sucked in too low and wait until all bubbles are out?
11-13-2013, 05:40 PM
#10
Originally Posted by s2000maniac' timestamp='1365778607' post='22469383
Dont open the bleeders. Get a large funnel that will fit tightly on the radiator. Then put the funnel on the radiator and fill it up with coolant. Turn the car on and heat on to max. Let the fans com on a few times and you should feel the air getting really hot. When the fans com on the thermostat opens and sucks in more coolant and all the air comes out. That's how I did mines.
how many times did you had to repeat and refill or just once? i am assuming you just have to keep the car running and refill if the coolant gets sucked in too low and wait until all bubbles are out?