Billman250

Maybe you guys should a host a retainer inspection day for the Del-Val group. Out of twenty cars, we found no broken retainers at our Metro tech day, but we did find one chipped cam lobe, right on the tip....don't worry, they were aftermarket cames purchased used...

mikegarrison

People misshift on the way up? That seems incredible to me. Misshifting on the way down seems a lot more likely. Especially if you are going directly from 5 to 3. Usually when you are going up, you are in a straight. When you are going down, you are approaching a corner and braking, with a lot more things on your mind.

Sharp Chuter

Well I feel better now. Checked my retainers today and all seemed fine. I was worried because of all the track time the car has seen. Let it be known that hitting the rev limiter while on the gas doesn't seem to cause this problem. At TGPR I hit the limiter in third on the back straight every lap, just before braking for the corner. I also FREQUENTLY red line or hit the rev limiter when driving on the street. No signs of the retainers walking up the valve stems on mine. 25K (hard) miles on the car. Some of the valve stems were visible and it looked like they were sticking out about 1/8" above the valve springs. I don't believe you can actually see how far the valve stems stick up on all valves without a little mirror or removing the cams and rockers, but I drug the feeler gauge up the valve stem until it slipped into the gap and it felt like all valve stems I couldn't see were sticking out about 1/8" above the springs too. Oh, by the way, I had to adjust 4 of the 16 valves to get them within spec. The valves had been clattering some and now they are much quieter.

The valve adjustment was pretty easy, I thought. Even people who have very little mechanical experience should do just fine as long as they have the right tools, follow the directions, and are careful.

One step that could be added to the procedure would be to take the car out of gear (Duh!). I started trying to rotate the crank to TDC on cylinder 1 and couldn't budge it past a certain point. When the car started rolling, I figured it out.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread.

Blue skies!
SC

apex2k

[QUOTE=Sharp Chuter,Nov 5 2004, 03:07 PM]
Approaching a corner on the track, I'm standing on the brake while trying to double-clutch, rev-match a downshift to the next lower gear to give me good power coming out of the corner.

Gernby

On the track, it seems that the most likely situation to cause a misshift is 5th to 4th (accidentally going into 2nd). I have a tendency to over-complicate this shift myself, and have to force myself to use 2 open fingers to push the shift lever down (only) and allow the centering springs to position the shifter correctly for 4th.

slipstream444

The only way to truly verify the valves aren't slipping is to pull the cams and rotate back the rockers. The procedure only takes about 45 minutes more than a standard valve adjustment when done meticulously. It's worth the piece of mind.

You mentioned that "some" of the stems were visible ... I don't know if this is what you meant, but you need to see all of the stems sitting above their respective retainers - the one you miss will be the one that kills your motor.
For note: the keeper should sit just barely below the flush line on the upper face of the retainer (barely recessed) with the valve end extending a little more than 1/8" above the keeper. The best gauge is the uniformity from valve to valve - in that you see the same amount of stem above all the retainers.

Sharp Chuter

[QUOTE=slipstream444,Nov 7 2004, 06:06 PM]You mentioned that "some" of the stems were visible ... I don't know if this is what you meant, but you need to see all of the stems sitting above their respective retainers - the one you miss will be the one that kills your motor.

Fencer

Billman,

This was briefly discussed a page or two back....

I was under the impression that Honda lowered the the redline from ~9000rpm to ~8000rpm due to the longer stroke. i.e. the F22C would have higher piston speeds than the F20C at the same RPM. I don't think it was a whim on their part, I think the redesign required it.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Fencer

Billman250

Tough to say, fencer, but we're putting a 04 motor in an 01 and spinning it to 9k, hopefully...I've got a thread about it in S2000 talk...

jyeung528

Billman,

How much does it cost to do this type of repair on retainers and/or bent valves?

Thanks.

Jeff