Sr2000

Thanks, the service man did mention pulling the head and I told him absolutely not so he went to speak with their S2000 service man but he was out so that's when adviser made the 7 hour quote...I know he didn't really know what he was talking about....thanks for the picture idea and for your help, I will try to bone up on being able to remove valve cover to do so....

S2oooNvegas

Well, i PM'd Billman yesterday about what i had found in the past few s2k's.
I dont say much as im very busy lately and dont even come on the forums much. S2ks keep me busier than you can imagine.

Ill start by saying if you havent heard of baker cylinder heads, they have many record holding engines around the globe. They have had and still have many record setting hondas doing what they do best in many different racing events. Steve the owner is a good friend of mine and does all my head work. And i mean he does it ALL. From lambos, to helicopters, to boats you wouldnt believe the stuff that other head shops send to him because they are scared of it.
Im telling this because this is the guy who i ask for his opinion on anything i do that i am personally second guessing, and thats not much. And while i am not omnipotent, i rarely back down to anyone elses opinion. Cause most are full of it. Billman on the other hand has been on these forums as long or longer than myself, and has an equal/similar reputation of building s2000s. Im not him and hes not me, so of course we may disagree a bit and without being there first hand i dont know how many or how bad ass of s2k's hes built.
But i do know what i have done and seen.
Steve has measured and weighed every set of everything that i give him, thats just how thorough he is.
There is nearly no difference in the ap2 retainer weight and the ap1 retainer weight. Now i will say i did not weigh them myself, so i cant quote exact numbers. But for steve to tell me that there is no issue at all running ap2 retainers to as high of rpm as i want, im gonna go with what he says. he builds heads for 100k dollar engines. Now the springs may not have enough pressure to NOT float up past 10k rpm, but thats not the point. A stock engine is just that, and wont ever hit that unless over revved. If you mechanically over rev it thats your fault anyways and you should expect damage.
To NOT replace exhaust retainers because you think that that is going to help keep from valves contacting on a mis shift, is splitting hairs.
Its not even good business in my opinion.
I back that up by the fact that the last 3 ap1 heads i have had apart, had wasted valve guides and the retainers were almost all micro cracked. ALL. the exhaust being the worst of the bunch due to the fact that the exhaust valves and retainers run near double the temp of the intake side.
I dont ever think to report this info because... what happens and will probably happen here.... a pissing match will begin.
I personally wanted to make sure i came in and passed this info around so that it can help others who may be in this similar situation.
Its my understanding that many other retainers sold for the s2k weigh as much or more than stock ones. So again... we are talking about micrograms here.
Every set i have replaced so far, whether its in the car or the head has had to be off due to bad guides.... has gotten ap2 retainers on intake an exhaust. Thats my way of doing it, with the blessing of the machinist doing the work.

So.... i dont really care who anyone "thinks is right".. this is the way i will always do it because its the safest way.
If the person mis shifts and lunches a motor.... its not gonna be the fact that the exhaust retainers weighed .0000000009 micrograms more than the originals.... trust me.

And again.... seeing the majority of the ap1 retainers cracked NOT enough to even notice a drop, but noticeable under magnification... is enough for me to condemn the part as the problem.

So anyways, if youve read my long winded reply thanks. I do enjoy thorough explanations. Bottom line is.... i personally wouldnt trust 100k mile ap1 exhaust retainers in my engine spinning 9k.
If its apart that far, replace them all.
If you think that having an extra 100 rpm before the valves contact is gonna save your life... then go ahead and replace the exhaust retainers with ap1 ones again.
I personally will keep on putting ap2 retainers on all the valves.

Dave

Carbon Blue

this is heartbreaking, im getting quotes in the 600-1200$ range and thats with keeping the head on. if you are ever in San Diego give me a ring.

s2000ellier

If you have a place you can work on your car then you can DIY. It really is not hard you just need a few specific tools and some basic hand tools.

I did it over a weekend and all I did was read this this DIY and bought the tools. This was my first time going this deep into a head.

edms2k

Just to clarify, do you have to pressurize each cylinder as you work on them or just connect the hose to one and leave it there for the entire job?

Thanks

s2000ellier

I pressurized each cylinder, dunno if that is required.

edms2k

I am thinking I will do the same.

USAF_S2K

you have to do each cylinder, youll need to maintain the pressure to keep the valve up. Same concept of compression testing each cylinder, the pressure is maintained in the cylinder you have the adapter in. thats why one cylinder can have less comp then the one next to it.

RavynX

I'm looking to find a inexpensive AP1 as a track car and keep my AP2 for autocross. If I inspect an AP1 and it has sunken keepers/cotters should I move on to the next car since it had to have been over-rev'd? Or would I be okay just to replace the retainers & keepers if I bought the car?

speedjunky01

just replacing and doing a valve adjustment usually will do the trick.

bring a compression tester to see if the car is healthy its an easy enough and quick test, I've done it on every car I have bought.