CoralDoc

In the last two oil reports from Blackstone Labs, my oil had elevated copper in it. Before I start freaking out, I wanted to find out from people familiar with the S2000 what this might mean.

Here's the information:
The car is a 2003, and is not driven hard. The first oil change was performed at 2,274 miles and the replacement Castrol GTX 10W/30 oil was supplemented with Mr. Moly Break-in additive. The first oil report showed elevated copper (25), considered normal for an engine during break-in. The next two oil reports of Castrol GTX oil at 5,146 9,122 miles showed much reduced copper levels (both 6). At 9,122 miles I started using Mobil 1 10W/30 and at the next oil change at 14,501 miles copper levels were up to 32. I submitted an oil sample early (after 2,887 miles of use) and copper values were again elevated at 12. Since the oil was not in service as long as the previous oil, this is still a disturbingly high value.

I have noticed a slight whine at certain times when the engine is warming up. It sounds like a bearing whine, but it is not easily reproduceable.

So what could be the source of the copper? The techs at Blackstone suggest that it "...could show a problem developing at brass or bronze parts, or a crack working at the oil cooler ... ". Are there brass or bronze bearings in the car?

Another consideration is that the elevated copper is coincident with changing to Mobil 1 oil. I've not heard of this being a problem before, and I used Mobil 1 in my MY 2000 S2000 and copper levels in its oil reports were always low.

Thanks in advance for any assistance with interpretation and suggestions for fixing this concern.

Here's a link to the most recent .pdf oil report file:
Right click on the red X and select "open link". Repeat this procedure one more time and if you have a .pdf viewer, the file should load.

Squeezer

the crankshaft bearing shims in most cars are steel, and plated in copper (since most metals won't plate to steel but copper does and most things will plate to copper) and then another metal is plated to the copper (usually lead because its soft). and then the part of the crank that rotates on the bearing shim will get oil starved and wear into the lead and then the copper plating. so the copper they detected is probably the copper on that shim. and once it wears into the steel you'll really be able to hear it.

to fix it you'd have to take the crank out and regrind the worn part, and use new bearing shims.

CoralDoc

Yikes!
I'll certainly keep my ears open.

The car has very low mileage for an '03 and the warrantee will expire in October, so i hope this can be resolved by then.

oakfloor

If you think its a oil issue, check out "bobistheoilguy" forum. good luck.

Road Rage

High copper readings are not unusual for Honda engines. if the iron readings look OK, I would not be too concerned. It can take a long time for Honda copper levels to settle.

oakfloor

Hi RR, where you been?

CoralDoc

Great to hear you chime in RR! You are corroborating what one of the techs at Blackstone explained to me.

Sideways

Was the engine ever worked on? Lots of mechanics use a copper based sealant. It's the in vogue thing to do in the race world.

CoralDoc

The engine is as it came from the factory except that I was using a Fumoto oil drain valve (made of brass). It was removed during the last oil change. In 3k miles I will sample the new oil and have it analyzed, then I'll report back here with the results.

The drain valve was installed during the first oil change and was in place for the 2nd and 3rd oil changes where low copper levels were reported. High copper levels were documented in oil from the fourth and fifth oil change.

Road Rage

Hi Guys:

I have been quite busy building IT capability for a premier Research Lab; and I have been assisting a pit crew for a noted Porsche vintage race guy (I know, I am a sell out). He is Exec VP of Porsche Club NA and an old family friend. He races a 911T (not a targa - a true factory racer). We will be at Summit Point next weekend.

Also been at VIR doing some hot laps when I can - just went with StopTech SS brake lines and Axxis pads - the stock brake system is excellent, BTW!

http://www.philipmorrisusa.com/en/about_us...logy_center.asp

http://www.philipmorrisusa.com/en/about_us...s_chrysalis.asp

The super-aerosol has medical use, and potential for use in things of interest to us. If I tell you more, I must kill you.