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Update - the most recent UOA shows 11 ppm copper in 3,621 miles. The universal average for the F20C is 4 ppm.
Copper wear rates for each oil change since new:
25 ppm @ 2,274 mi = 0.011 ppm/mile
6 ppm @ 2,872 mi = 0.002 ppm/mile
6 ppm @ 3,976 mi = 0.0015 ppm/mile
32 ppm @ 5,379 mi = 0.006 ppm/mile
12 ppm @ 2,887 mi = 0.004 ppm/mile
11 ppm @ 3,621 mi = 0.003 ppm/mile
This means that my wear rates are going in the right direction. I'm hoping that the next oil change will show close to normal copper values.
Regarding the bronze Fumoto valve as a possible source of copper - the valve was removed at the last oil change, so I don't know if there is much remaining from that source. Plus, the valve was installed during the first oil change and the next two reported low copper values (6 ppm each). It wasn't until the third oil change after valve installation that copper levels became elevated. It is certainly possible that it took a while for contamination to start. Now that the valve has been removed, we'll see what happens in the next oil change.
I inspected the oil filter and did not see any copper particles or shreds in it.
Originally Posted by CoralDoc,Jun 10 2006, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I don't ride the clutch under any circumstances. The only time my foot is on the clutch is when I'm shifting gears.
However, I think you are referring to the throwout bearing. Since the throwout bearing resides in the bellhousing and is not in contact with engine oil, even if I did ride the clutch it wouldn't affect my oil analysis.
S2oooNVegas was not referring to the ThrowOut Bearing but to the thrust bearings for the crankshaft ......... when the Throwout Bearing is pushing on the Pressure Plate the crankshaft is getting pushed forward and the force is being reacted by the "thrust bearings".
Here's an update: the last two Blackstone oil reports have shown normal copper values. The engine now has 28,700 miles. I'll keep monitoring the oil and hope that Road Rage was right and this was just what happens in some Honda engines.
Wear rates for copper are now normal with the following values:
4 ppm @ 3,817 mi = 0.001 ppm/mile
2 ppm @ 3,736 mi = 0.0005 ppm/mile
Here's the report. As before, click on the red X, click on the resulting box and the image will load if you have a .pdf viewer.
the crankshaft bearing shims in most cars are steel, and plated in copper (since most metals won't plate to steel but copper does and most things will plate to copper) and then another metal is plated to the copper (usually lead because its soft). and then the part of the crank that rotates on the bearing shim will get oil starved and wear into the lead and then the copper plating. so the copper they detected is probably the copper on that shim. and once it wears into the steel you'll really be able to hear it.
to fix it you'd have to take the crank out and regrind the worn part, and use new bearing shims.
Thread from the dead. So if I am getting a streak of LEAD on a regular basis then that is probably something wearing into that bearing. So as soon as I start to see any hint of copper elevating it's a pull off the oil pan and check the crankshaft bearings? Is it possible to replace those both without pulling the engine and re-building?
