Greddy E-manage and Forced Induction
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From: Sydney
Greddy E-manage and Forced Induction
I realise you could trawl the board and out this information together with some level of accuracy but I thought that for my and others benefit I would start a new thread. I would like to discuss the benefits of the Greddy E-manage in a Forced Induction (primarily SC) application.
Both of the supercharger kits for the S2000 use a device to hide boost from the ECU, then a rising rate regulator to increase fuel pressure proportionally to boost. Under certain conditions (partial throttle?) the ECU does it's best to keep A/F ratios good using it's O2 sensor (it's getting more air from the SC and more fuel due to the regulator but it's only interested in the ratio) and at WOT (whole open throttle) it is relying on maps coded into it at the factory which are on the safe (read: rich) side.
One of the simplest approaches to tuning this set up a bit more was to use a VAFC. This device tricks the ECU into providing more or less fuel by intercepting and altering the MAP signal. Works pretty well for NA applications. If you want more fuel you tell the ECU you have more pressure.
The problem is that with FI applications you already have pressure greater than ambient and have to hide this from the ECU (using the ESM or Voltage Clamp). If you clamp the voltage at 2.93V and then up it with the VAFC (as I did in the early days) the ECU sees boost (greater than 2.93V) and retards ignition.
On basic reading of the E-manage specs it appears it is effectively the same. It alters fuel at 5 preset point by intercepting andincreasing or decreasing the MAP signal. Not much good really. But then you can add injector and ignition harnesses and the support tool software and cable and even a pressure sensor. My question is (sure has taken a while to get around to it) does the E-manage control the injectors directly? Or does it still use the MAP intercept and fuddle method?
Is the E-manage with options a better solution than the VAFC? Is it a recommended solution or another half baked bandaid?
Is it OK to up the pressure on the Comptech FPR then lean out with the VAFC? That way you give control back to the VAFC without ever exceeding the 2.93V threshold.
Both of the supercharger kits for the S2000 use a device to hide boost from the ECU, then a rising rate regulator to increase fuel pressure proportionally to boost. Under certain conditions (partial throttle?) the ECU does it's best to keep A/F ratios good using it's O2 sensor (it's getting more air from the SC and more fuel due to the regulator but it's only interested in the ratio) and at WOT (whole open throttle) it is relying on maps coded into it at the factory which are on the safe (read: rich) side.
One of the simplest approaches to tuning this set up a bit more was to use a VAFC. This device tricks the ECU into providing more or less fuel by intercepting and altering the MAP signal. Works pretty well for NA applications. If you want more fuel you tell the ECU you have more pressure.
The problem is that with FI applications you already have pressure greater than ambient and have to hide this from the ECU (using the ESM or Voltage Clamp). If you clamp the voltage at 2.93V and then up it with the VAFC (as I did in the early days) the ECU sees boost (greater than 2.93V) and retards ignition.
On basic reading of the E-manage specs it appears it is effectively the same. It alters fuel at 5 preset point by intercepting andincreasing or decreasing the MAP signal. Not much good really. But then you can add injector and ignition harnesses and the support tool software and cable and even a pressure sensor. My question is (sure has taken a while to get around to it) does the E-manage control the injectors directly? Or does it still use the MAP intercept and fuddle method?
Is the E-manage with options a better solution than the VAFC? Is it a recommended solution or another half baked bandaid?
Is it OK to up the pressure on the Comptech FPR then lean out with the VAFC? That way you give control back to the VAFC without ever exceeding the 2.93V threshold.
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From: Houston
Aus,
Using the eManage injector map is 10 times better than using it's MAP sensor map, or a V-AFC. The reasons are that the MAP sensor map only uses TPS and RPM for it's tuning. Since the car is tuned on a dyno, at WOT, these settings are not the best for street driving. For example, the car is tuned for full boost at 7K RPM but if you're driving and quickly downshift and the car is suddenly at 7K RPM without making full boost the car will start bucking and hesitating because it has way too much fuel. I know because that's how my car was originally set up. It's even worse with a V-AFC because you can't tune TPS by RPM, just TPS by WOT or non-WOT. The V-AFC is the worst way to tune a FI car. The eManage injector map is tuned with Boost (best to use the Greddy Sensor as the source) and RPM. This way you can tune for WOT, half-wot, non-wot, everything and at every RPM area. Now, you might still use the MAP sensor map for taking some fuel out during your street tuning. Stop and go driving, changing lanes, part throttle, etc can find lean and rich conditions that were not tuned on the dyno. The MAP sensor map can be used to take fuel out if it is needed. In my car's tuning we used both maps to get the best results.
What is your plan? Stock injectors? If you upgraded the injectors you won't need the FPR. If you keep the injectors stock you might need the extra fuel pressure.
BTW, the eManage can act as your MAP signal clamp. The feature is called Boost Limiter Cut.
Using the eManage injector map is 10 times better than using it's MAP sensor map, or a V-AFC. The reasons are that the MAP sensor map only uses TPS and RPM for it's tuning. Since the car is tuned on a dyno, at WOT, these settings are not the best for street driving. For example, the car is tuned for full boost at 7K RPM but if you're driving and quickly downshift and the car is suddenly at 7K RPM without making full boost the car will start bucking and hesitating because it has way too much fuel. I know because that's how my car was originally set up. It's even worse with a V-AFC because you can't tune TPS by RPM, just TPS by WOT or non-WOT. The V-AFC is the worst way to tune a FI car. The eManage injector map is tuned with Boost (best to use the Greddy Sensor as the source) and RPM. This way you can tune for WOT, half-wot, non-wot, everything and at every RPM area. Now, you might still use the MAP sensor map for taking some fuel out during your street tuning. Stop and go driving, changing lanes, part throttle, etc can find lean and rich conditions that were not tuned on the dyno. The MAP sensor map can be used to take fuel out if it is needed. In my car's tuning we used both maps to get the best results.
What is your plan? Stock injectors? If you upgraded the injectors you won't need the FPR. If you keep the injectors stock you might need the extra fuel pressure.
BTW, the eManage can act as your MAP signal clamp. The feature is called Boost Limiter Cut.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Studio City
My car is the first one MY03 that got the kit from Vortech. It stayed there for a month, they did testing and I had a sweet deal. When I picked up the car, it wasn't hesitating. It came out after a week. They want to keep the car for another 3 days. So the kit is just getting out Fyrestrike.
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From: Miami Lakes
Originally posted by mayhan1980
My car is the first one MY03 that got the kit from Vortech. It stayed there for a month, they did testing and I had a sweet deal. When I picked up the car, it wasn't hesitating. It came out after a week. They want to keep the car for another 3 days. So the kit is just getting out Fyrestrike.
My car is the first one MY03 that got the kit from Vortech. It stayed there for a month, they did testing and I had a sweet deal. When I picked up the car, it wasn't hesitating. It came out after a week. They want to keep the car for another 3 days. So the kit is just getting out Fyrestrike.
I stand corrected, keep us posted on your progress.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Studio City
I thought ecu was different, they also mentioned about a new user friendly harness, I guess when you pay $2811.04 including the kit,installation and the tax, you don't ask too many questions. 
It happened a week after Vortech was installed. That's sounds like a good idea to try obd, won't hurt. I work for a honda dealer. I'll get the mechanic check my car for lunch.
It happened a week after Vortech was installed. That's sounds like a good idea to try obd, won't hurt. I work for a honda dealer. I'll get the mechanic check my car for lunch.