Help/Advice requested for my dying S2000
10-26-2010, 07:26 PM
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Help/Advice requested for my dying S2000
Hi guys and gals, My name is Henry and I have a problem lol
About 6 months ago I saved up my pennies and bought a 2003 Honda S2000 from a small bloke/child in Bradford.
The car has 80k on the clock and cost me £6,100.
Having got it back to Cardiff where I live, a friend of mine was looking over it and was pleasantly suprised by the fact the oil was full of brand new oil. This should have been a warning, but as I said, I am a complete newbie.
For the first month, the car was brilliant, I completely loved it. However after about 5 weeks, it started to make a small ticking noise every so often, and occasionally it would cut out under braking. 2 days later, it started making a very worrying noise so I pulled over and called the AA out at about 4 in the morning.
The AA bloke turned up and reved the engine, heard the noise and didnt know what was causing it. While we waited for the flatbed-truck to arrive to take it home, he decided to check the oil. While he was searching for the dipstick, I confidently explained to him that I had done so recently and that the oil was fine. He continued to check it nonetheless and it appears there was not a single drop of oil in the car!?!
The following day I did what he advised me to do, and filled it back up with brand new oil, let it sit for a while, then start the engine and just let the car tick over for 10 mins. After that, i tried to rev the engine slightly and it made the most horrible knocking noise. I then got the car towed to my local Honda Dealership to be diagnosed. About 2 hours later I got a phone call from the service manager. He said he didn't even bother to take my car into the workshop and start looking at it, because that would start to cost me alot of money. He said he knows what the problem is just from hearing it. Apparently the big end has gone? Camshaft and bigend bearing are knackered due to overheating? because of no oil.
Now because this is Honda, and they are taking the corporate line, he said they will not repair it, and will only put a brand new engine in it.
I have since been told by Honda, and by 2 other mechanics that I know (neither have actually looked at the engine however) that repairing the bigend/camshaft is not worth it, as it is an expensive job and apparently because the whole engine has been starved of oil and overheated, even if I was to repair/replace the bigend/camshaft, then the likelyhood is that the top end will break shortly after. I don't know how true this is??
Now here is my problem, Honda was £7,000 to put a brand new engine in it. This is obviously not an option. I do not however, know what my other options are? I assume that the easiest/cheapest thing to do is to get a second hand engine from a written off car out of a scrapyard and put that in it.
Having done some searching, the cheapest engine i can find from a scrapyard is in the region of £1,700. Although I have no idea how you can verify the claims they make about the age and mileage of the engine, and how do you know it isnt knackered itself?
How much is it going to cost to have the current engine taken out and the new one put in? I really don't know what to do, or who to speak to so this is why I have resorted to asking you guys!
The money situation at the moment is pretty bad, and I obviously want to get my car sorted as cheaply as possible, but I don't want to spend money sorting it, only to have further problems with it in a few months.
As you can probably tell, I have next to no knowledge of engines or mechanics.
I have been told by a friend of a friend that he can import me a "chinese native engine" which is "boxed with everything involved including wiring loom" for £1,300 and apparently I could then sell the wiring loom for £400 meaning the engine is only gunna cost me £900. Does this make any sense? Is this the same/correct engine? Is this a good or bad idea?
Sincere apologies for the length of this post, I didn't want to make a brief and rubbish explaination of the problem only to have all you helpful people have to ask me hundreds of further questions. I think I have said everything I need to, but if you do need to know something else in order to help me and give me some adivce, please do ask!
Many many many thanks in advance!
Henry
About 6 months ago I saved up my pennies and bought a 2003 Honda S2000 from a small bloke/child in Bradford.
The car has 80k on the clock and cost me £6,100.
Having got it back to Cardiff where I live, a friend of mine was looking over it and was pleasantly suprised by the fact the oil was full of brand new oil. This should have been a warning, but as I said, I am a complete newbie.
For the first month, the car was brilliant, I completely loved it. However after about 5 weeks, it started to make a small ticking noise every so often, and occasionally it would cut out under braking. 2 days later, it started making a very worrying noise so I pulled over and called the AA out at about 4 in the morning.
The AA bloke turned up and reved the engine, heard the noise and didnt know what was causing it. While we waited for the flatbed-truck to arrive to take it home, he decided to check the oil. While he was searching for the dipstick, I confidently explained to him that I had done so recently and that the oil was fine. He continued to check it nonetheless and it appears there was not a single drop of oil in the car!?!
The following day I did what he advised me to do, and filled it back up with brand new oil, let it sit for a while, then start the engine and just let the car tick over for 10 mins. After that, i tried to rev the engine slightly and it made the most horrible knocking noise. I then got the car towed to my local Honda Dealership to be diagnosed. About 2 hours later I got a phone call from the service manager. He said he didn't even bother to take my car into the workshop and start looking at it, because that would start to cost me alot of money. He said he knows what the problem is just from hearing it. Apparently the big end has gone? Camshaft and bigend bearing are knackered due to overheating? because of no oil.
Now because this is Honda, and they are taking the corporate line, he said they will not repair it, and will only put a brand new engine in it.
I have since been told by Honda, and by 2 other mechanics that I know (neither have actually looked at the engine however) that repairing the bigend/camshaft is not worth it, as it is an expensive job and apparently because the whole engine has been starved of oil and overheated, even if I was to repair/replace the bigend/camshaft, then the likelyhood is that the top end will break shortly after. I don't know how true this is??
Now here is my problem, Honda was £7,000 to put a brand new engine in it. This is obviously not an option. I do not however, know what my other options are? I assume that the easiest/cheapest thing to do is to get a second hand engine from a written off car out of a scrapyard and put that in it.
Having done some searching, the cheapest engine i can find from a scrapyard is in the region of £1,700. Although I have no idea how you can verify the claims they make about the age and mileage of the engine, and how do you know it isnt knackered itself?
How much is it going to cost to have the current engine taken out and the new one put in? I really don't know what to do, or who to speak to so this is why I have resorted to asking you guys!
The money situation at the moment is pretty bad, and I obviously want to get my car sorted as cheaply as possible, but I don't want to spend money sorting it, only to have further problems with it in a few months.
As you can probably tell, I have next to no knowledge of engines or mechanics.
I have been told by a friend of a friend that he can import me a "chinese native engine" which is "boxed with everything involved including wiring loom" for £1,300 and apparently I could then sell the wiring loom for £400 meaning the engine is only gunna cost me £900. Does this make any sense? Is this the same/correct engine? Is this a good or bad idea?
Sincere apologies for the length of this post, I didn't want to make a brief and rubbish explaination of the problem only to have all you helpful people have to ask me hundreds of further questions. I think I have said everything I need to, but if you do need to know something else in order to help me and give me some adivce, please do ask!
Many many many thanks in advance!
Henry
10-27-2010, 02:42 AM
#3
Henry, contact Rob at http://www.garage-r.co.uk/, he is located in south Yorkshire.
He is very reputable and can source engines from trustworthy cars (he breaks them himself in most cases)
Many people in the UK S2000 community have used him, search in this sub forum
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=25
for reviews on his business.
As for your problem, the S2000 (F20C) engine is very sensitive to oil level, running it with low oil will definitely cause damage and running it way past the Low mark would have caused damage to the crank and connecting rod bearings. The result is the knocking you hear.
Speak to Rob, he is your best chance of repairing it for a moderate price (way cheaper than dealer) and he has alot of experience working on S2000s.
PS, out of interest, over your 6month ownership did you check the oil during this time? The early F20C engines used oil (due to design, not fault) and require topping up every time you fill the tank (this is stated in the cars owner manual). If you neglected to check the oil and top it up accordingly you may have inadvertently caused the damage through lack of maintenance
For example, if driving enthusiastically over the period of one tank of fuel, I may have to top my oil up 100ml to get it back to the Full mark. Over 6 months and potentially 10 tanks of fuel? you could easily run the engine way below the low mark and starve it of its 'life blood'.
Good luck,
Ben.
He is very reputable and can source engines from trustworthy cars (he breaks them himself in most cases)
Many people in the UK S2000 community have used him, search in this sub forum
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=25
for reviews on his business.
As for your problem, the S2000 (F20C) engine is very sensitive to oil level, running it with low oil will definitely cause damage and running it way past the Low mark would have caused damage to the crank and connecting rod bearings. The result is the knocking you hear.
Speak to Rob, he is your best chance of repairing it for a moderate price (way cheaper than dealer) and he has alot of experience working on S2000s.
PS, out of interest, over your 6month ownership did you check the oil during this time? The early F20C engines used oil (due to design, not fault) and require topping up every time you fill the tank (this is stated in the cars owner manual). If you neglected to check the oil and top it up accordingly you may have inadvertently caused the damage through lack of maintenance
For example, if driving enthusiastically over the period of one tank of fuel, I may have to top my oil up 100ml to get it back to the Full mark. Over 6 months and potentially 10 tanks of fuel? you could easily run the engine way below the low mark and starve it of its 'life blood'.
Good luck,
Ben.
10-27-2010, 04:37 AM
#4
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It seems many people are also READING the stick incorrectly.
If one side of the stick shows full, and the other side shows nothing, you have NOTHING.
Readings must be the same on both sides of the stick. The false reading on one side of the stick is due to oil being picked up from the windage tray. The windage tray has a hole in it, where oil sits all around the hole.
If one side of the stick shows full, and the other side shows nothing, you have NOTHING.
Readings must be the same on both sides of the stick. The false reading on one side of the stick is due to oil being picked up from the windage tray. The windage tray has a hole in it, where oil sits all around the hole.
10-27-2010, 04:01 PM
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Hey, thanks for your replies so far.
I feel I may have misled you accidentally. I have been told it is the Crankshaft that is knackered NOT the camshaft.
Would you guys agree or dissagree with the advice I was given regarding wether or not it is wise to repair the engine or not? I was told that I am only ever gunna have trouble with the rest of the engine if I do decide to repair it. Rough idea how much it will cost to repair?
Also if I decide to replace the engine, how much should I expect to pay someone to swap the engines over?
Many thanks for your help!
I feel I may have misled you accidentally. I have been told it is the Crankshaft that is knackered NOT the camshaft.
Would you guys agree or dissagree with the advice I was given regarding wether or not it is wise to repair the engine or not? I was told that I am only ever gunna have trouble with the rest of the engine if I do decide to repair it. Rough idea how much it will cost to repair?
Also if I decide to replace the engine, how much should I expect to pay someone to swap the engines over?
Many thanks for your help!
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10-28-2010, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Billman250,Oct 27 2010, 02:37 AM
It seems many people are also READING the stick incorrectly.
If one side of the stick shows full, and the other side shows nothing, you have NOTHING.
Readings must be the same on both sides of the stick. The false reading on one side of the stick is due to oil being picked up from the windage tray. The windage tray has a hole in it, where oil sits all around the hole.
If one side of the stick shows full, and the other side shows nothing, you have NOTHING.
Readings must be the same on both sides of the stick. The false reading on one side of the stick is due to oil being picked up from the windage tray. The windage tray has a hole in it, where oil sits all around the hole.
I've been trying to tell people too but some people think the high side is for hot..etc etc etc 
10-28-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HenryGriffiths,Oct 27 2010, 04:01 PM
Hey, thanks for your replies so far.
I feel I may have misled you accidentally. I have been told it is the Crankshaft that is knackered NOT the camshaft.
Would you guys agree or dissagree with the advice I was given regarding wether or not it is wise to repair the engine or not? I was told that I am only ever gunna have trouble with the rest of the engine if I do decide to repair it. Rough idea how much it will cost to repair?
Also if I decide to replace the engine, how much should I expect to pay someone to swap the engines over?
Many thanks for your help!
I feel I may have misled you accidentally. I have been told it is the Crankshaft that is knackered NOT the camshaft.
Would you guys agree or dissagree with the advice I was given regarding wether or not it is wise to repair the engine or not? I was told that I am only ever gunna have trouble with the rest of the engine if I do decide to repair it. Rough idea how much it will cost to repair?
Also if I decide to replace the engine, how much should I expect to pay someone to swap the engines over?
Many thanks for your help!
I agree with the earlier post - consider replacing the engine with one recommended by your reliable, local mechanic. It's a lot more economic than buying a new engine and, given Honda's reliability, may be nearly as good.