wblanch

My son's 92 Civic has been to Curtiss-Ryan in Shelton, CT at least a half dozen times since the beginning of July. I'm hoping someone on this board might have seen this problem before and can offer a solution.
It started out that the car would sometimes not start. The fuel pump would not kick in when you turned the key. If you kept trying, it would usually kick in. Once the car started it would run fine. They replaced the main relay and the car was OK for a few weeks. We had the same problem but they could not find anything wrong. The car was OK for another week. They tried replacing the distributor but that did not fix it. They suggested a new computer for $800. We picked one up at a junk yard for $75. The car ran fine for a couple of weeks but then died after it had been driven for 20 minutes. If you let it sit for a while it would usually start back up. I checked the computer codes and it showed a 15, indicating an ignition problem. They could not find anything wrong. It died again a couple of days later and they put in a new ignitor. That worked OK for a few days. The car has been in the shop since. A new distributor did not fix the problem. They spent all day working on it and now think it could be a bad wire somewhere in the harness that is cutting off fuel. My son got the impression they don't feel it's worth putting any more effort into it because of the cost, but we paid $4K for this car a year ago. Any ideas???
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Wayne

marcucci

First, find a new dealer unless they have been refunding you for all these parts- that's a horrible way for them to troubleshoot.

The only way to figure this out is to excite the problem and troubleshoot. From what I've seen, that Main Relay and the associated wiring is usually the culprit, if not the pump itself. You haven't mentioned it, so it may be worthwhile to pull the pump and take a look at it, or replace it with a used one if you can find one with low miles (just to check).

Your ignition problem would make me suspect and ignition problem, though. If you can get your hands on the factory manual, try and do so. Since the ICM has been replaced, you can really only look at the related wiring and possibly related relays. Civic/Integra relays appear to develop problems with age, it might be a good bet to use a multimeter and check contact resistance of the relays in the ignition, ECU, and fuel pump paths.

Sorry I can't be more specific- this is something your dealer should be doing, though, and not charging you for replacing parts that didn't fix the problem.

The Reverend

My girlriend's 93 Taurus SHO is having a very similar problem. Have you checked for spark when it doesn't start? Next time it wont start, pull one of the spark plug wires from the distributor and hold it about half an inch away and see if it arcs. If it doesn't, you have an ignition issue. If it does, it's probably a fuel issue. In the case of my girlfriend's car, it's a fuel issue. This weekend I'm going to check the wiring to her fuel pump, the fuel filter (make sure it isn't clogged), and probably the relays also. On your civic, the fuel pump is a lot easier to get to than on the Taurus. I've got a long weekend ahead of me. I'll let you know what I find, since these two cars may have the same problem.

Big Al

I think you have a ground problem. I had a similar problem with a german car and it turned out to be a burned electrical panel ground. The problem with a relay came and went mysteriously for months. Discovered the problem with the ground, put in a jumper and all was repaired.

wblanch

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
The service manager is now researching the problem. He suggested WE contact Honda in California to check their database for similar problems???
Today he talked to 3 out of the 4 technicians that worked on the car. The 4th is due back tomorrow. He says the car is getting juice at the distributor but no spark. They already tried another distributor. Still seems to think wiring harness???
I'm not impressed. I thought Curtiss-Ryan was the best around here. Not anymore...

billyblue

I had a problem with my 89 CRX - it would start and run fine until it warmed up, where upon it would start mis-firing and usually stop until it had cooled down. The dealer had it for 3 days, even replace the computer to no avail - until they replaced the rotor button - turned out when it warmed up there was an ultra thin crack that opened up enough to allow an internal short. The service computer at the dealer can't check it. Annoyingly talking to another service manager he knew all about it...

HTH

vtecvoodoo

coulde be as simple as a loose ground.

marcucci

When they say "juice," do they mean power (12V) or spark? If not spark, check the coil or wires for opens/intermittent connection. If it's getting spark, I'd go over all the wiring (ohm it all out, while jostling it) and the grounds. Have them check all the wiring and relays in the loop for resistance- anything over 1 or 2 ohms may be enough to drop the voltage to where a relay would drop out or the module/distributor would quit working.

Don't give up on the dealer- they should have seen this before, but are probably trying to rule out a lot of things. Just keep on them, and don't pay for anything they don't do (or didn't need to do).