Inake Manifold Temp
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Inake Manifold Temp
Just picked up my AP1 about 1 month or so ago. A couple of days ago I was under the hood just looking around, and I noticed my intake manifold was extremely hot. I had just got done driving, but not very hard, and the temp outside was only like 64. First off, is it normal for it to get real hot, secondly how or can you prevent it from getting that hot? I've seen the Hondata gasket, but does it actually work? I don't want to drop $60 on a gasket if its pointless. Is there any other tricks or ideas? I just figured this has got to be robbing me of some power. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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From: Jackson
yes it gets hot because coolant circulates through it to keep the throttle plate from icing up in the winter. yes the hondata gasket helps because it blocks off the coolant flow to the throttle body
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From: Milwaukee Area
Originally Posted by Squeezer,Apr 23 2006, 09:27 PM
yes it gets hot because coolant circulates through it to keep the throttle plate from icing up in the winter. yes the hondata gasket helps because it blocks off the coolant flow to the throttle body
if you don't have the hondata gasket, blocking the TB coolant will do absolutely nothing for your car. except maybe give you an erratic idle.
by the way, to the original poster, why are you trying to fix something that isn't broke... ???
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From: orange county
hondata i noiced you are in torrance,do you guys or a shop near you install this part.i have seen the writeup of this and its not something i would care to do myself. If so whats the price for install?
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From: Bellingham
if you don't have the hondata gasket, blocking the TB coolant will do absolutely nothing for your car. except maybe give you an erratic idle.
Follow the "Tech" link on this site for details:http://www.proautosportsinc.com/
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From: Milwaukee Area
And this has been debunked already on a dyno. I'm not going to repeat all of this over and over and over again. Sorry, but blocking the coolant TB does nothing. the TB simply does not have the kind of surface area to support affecting the temperature INSIDE the intake manifold.
in other words the delta/change in air temp BEFORE the TB and AFTER the TB remains within only 1-3 degrees of each other.
also, as for your "link" i stopped reading after I saw this:
"This equates to approximately 1% loss of horsepower for every 5.5 degree (F) rise in intake temperatures."
lol, wow. no idea wtf they are talking about. see the calculations below for more info. a 10F degree temp difference means about a 1% loss in power.
oh wait, if you keep reading it gets even better!! LOL
interesting. that's almost exactly the difference they measured in the IAT temps. lol. hey let's dyno one at 70F ambient temp, and then do the coolant bypass, and dyno it at 55F ambient temp, and viola, we have a 16F degree difference. woohoo!!! 
on top of that they say they measured coolant temps, yet the dont tell us what they were? how about timing maps and fuel mappings? How about the air/fuel ratios? Did they dyno each car at LEAST 5 times in each form in order to eliminate dyno error alone? (dyno's inherently have about a 3-5% error factor)
Gee, i guess they didn't. Someone did this a LONG time ago and DID provide all of those measurements and COMPLETELY DEBUNKED this "mod".
And here's some more reading material for you:
I will provide you with a few excerpts from this already heavily discussed topic:
[QUOTE]
There is not enough thermal transfer going on to support the kind of gains he is claiming from this mod. Using the LS1 as an example let's do an experiement. Do you realize how much temperature would have to change to gain 5.6whp? If you calculate the volumetric efficiency of an engine, using mass air flow readings, you can convert mass air flow to volume flow if you know the temperature of the air. Use this equation here:
Where:
t1 = Temperature of air for a known density (32
in other words the delta/change in air temp BEFORE the TB and AFTER the TB remains within only 1-3 degrees of each other.
also, as for your "link" i stopped reading after I saw this:
"This equates to approximately 1% loss of horsepower for every 5.5 degree (F) rise in intake temperatures."
lol, wow. no idea wtf they are talking about. see the calculations below for more info. a 10F degree temp difference means about a 1% loss in power.
oh wait, if you keep reading it gets even better!! LOL
The results from both tests were a reduction of intake temperatures, as measured by the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor, of approximately 16 degrees (F). .......
Ambient temperatures in each test were between 55-70 degrees (F).
Ambient temperatures in each test were between 55-70 degrees (F).
on top of that they say they measured coolant temps, yet the dont tell us what they were? how about timing maps and fuel mappings? How about the air/fuel ratios? Did they dyno each car at LEAST 5 times in each form in order to eliminate dyno error alone? (dyno's inherently have about a 3-5% error factor)
Gee, i guess they didn't. Someone did this a LONG time ago and DID provide all of those measurements and COMPLETELY DEBUNKED this "mod".
And here's some more reading material for you:
I will provide you with a few excerpts from this already heavily discussed topic:
First, the bypass of coolant to the ITB. The coolant circuit in the throttle body is to speed up the idle stabilization after a cold start. The coolant that runs through the throttle body warms up the quickest because it is recirculated (sorta like the heat riser system on carbed engines or like "carb heat" on airplane engines). Blocking the TB may only fool the ECU into thinking that the engine hasn't warmed up yet and it will continue to keep the idle high and continue to run a richer mixture. Obviously a richer mixture can cause some horsepower loss and even wreak havoc with your idle. If you bypass the coolant flow, the sensor inside does not see the temp of the coolant, and will cause the engine to run richer longer, and your engine will take longer to warm up and stabilize your idle. This is even more so when the weather is colder.
Also, this is like trying to use a spray bottle full of your own pee to put out a forest fire. The greatest amount of heating and heat transfer occurs in the intake manifold. This is where your intake charge heats up the most. The main reason being the heat via conduction from the head. The little piss stream that flows through the cooling jacket of the ITB has nowhere near the surface area or cooling capacity to even be effective in cooling down the intake charge. In other words, you can block it all you want, it's not going to do jack. It can, however, screw with your idle and your air/fuel mixture. Think about this from a thermal standpoint. Look at a front mount intercooler for a turbo, and all of the surface area it has with all the tiny foils, etc. That is the kind of surface area you need to cool the intake charge. Again, the ITB simply won't cut it.
The entire purpose of the ITB coolant jacket is to help in colder temperature, is to warm up the ITB just enough to it can get a stable idle after a cold start. After the engine is up to temp, it has no effect on the intake charge temp no matter what you do or don't run through it.
Also, this is like trying to use a spray bottle full of your own pee to put out a forest fire. The greatest amount of heating and heat transfer occurs in the intake manifold. This is where your intake charge heats up the most. The main reason being the heat via conduction from the head. The little piss stream that flows through the cooling jacket of the ITB has nowhere near the surface area or cooling capacity to even be effective in cooling down the intake charge. In other words, you can block it all you want, it's not going to do jack. It can, however, screw with your idle and your air/fuel mixture. Think about this from a thermal standpoint. Look at a front mount intercooler for a turbo, and all of the surface area it has with all the tiny foils, etc. That is the kind of surface area you need to cool the intake charge. Again, the ITB simply won't cut it.
The entire purpose of the ITB coolant jacket is to help in colder temperature, is to warm up the ITB just enough to it can get a stable idle after a cold start. After the engine is up to temp, it has no effect on the intake charge temp no matter what you do or don't run through it.
Originally Posted by SlowS2k, our resident ASE master S2k mechanic
Not to mention that stopping the flow of coolant will have little to no effect on air intake temperatures.
There is not enough thermal transfer going on to support the kind of gains he is claiming from this mod. Using the LS1 as an example let's do an experiement. Do you realize how much temperature would have to change to gain 5.6whp? If you calculate the volumetric efficiency of an engine, using mass air flow readings, you can convert mass air flow to volume flow if you know the temperature of the air. Use this equation here:
Where:
t1 = Temperature of air for a known density (32