S2000 Under The Hood S2000 Technical and Mechanical discussions.

Loose handling

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Old Jul 5, 2012 | 05:21 PM
  #11  
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Here is my most recent alignment. Haven't really "pushed" anything, but it steers fine and feels good overall.

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Old Jul 5, 2012 | 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by k24accord


Just got back from the shop, and with my luck, they just happened to be having issues with their alignment machine and couldn't do any alignments. They did however put it on the rack to at least give me a ballpark figure, which i'm sure is useless.

Edit - just realized the printout doesn't even have a figure for the caster, which was the most important thing. I'm just going to take it elsewhere, as I'm already tired of dealing with this place.
ouch billman is gonna cringe lol... almost a half degree difference between the front camber!! and thats "aligned perfectly!!!! no thats BS!!! also look at the rear toe! not equal theres almost .25 degree difference between the left and right.. the right is damn near straight. thats someone who gets the car on the rack and blindfold aligns it lol bet the caster is like 3 degrees lol
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Old Jul 5, 2012 | 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by VPS_AP1
Originally Posted by k24accord' timestamp='1341536406' post='21837196


Just got back from the shop, and with my luck, they just happened to be having issues with their alignment machine and couldn't do any alignments. They did however put it on the rack to at least give me a ballpark figure, which i'm sure is useless.

Edit - just realized the printout doesn't even have a figure for the caster, which was the most important thing. I'm just going to take it elsewhere, as I'm already tired of dealing with this place.
ouch billman is gonna cringe lol... almost a half degree difference between the front camber!! and thats "aligned perfectly!!!! no thats BS!!! also look at the rear toe! not equal theres almost .25 degree difference between the left and right.. the right is damn near straight. thats someone who gets the car on the rack and blindfold aligns it lol bet the caster is like 3 degrees lol
Yep. I'm not too thrilled right now. I know they told me the sensors on their alignment rack were off, and to come back in a few days, as they were having someone come by and fix them (or so I was told). One side of me wants to give them the benefit of the doubt, and the other things they're full of you know what lol.

They warranty their alignments, so I could go back and have them correct it for free upon them getting their machine working correctly, but at this point i'm somewhat convinced to just eat the cost and go somewhere else.
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Old Jul 5, 2012 | 08:43 PM
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You don't have a Caster reading because they didn't measure it, that is the only way that field is blank on that type of printout. They are using a Hunter aligner, which when in working order is good equipment. Even the mentally challenged can make the arrows light up in the green, as long as you have a reasonable ride height.

Reasonable meaning you can see the top of the tire, none of this 1 finger gap crap. The lower an S2000 is the less adjustment you have to set front and rear camber to spec.

If you car is lowered they may not be able to measure caster unless they pull the front bumper off, depending on the type of heads on the machine.

If you car was hit the wall parallel to the wheel face you tie rods and steering racks get bent.
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Slows2k
You don't have a Caster reading because they didn't measure it, that is the only way that field is blank on that type of printout. They are using a Hunter aligner, which when in working order is good equipment. Even the mentally challenged can make the arrows light up in the green, as long as you have a reasonable ride height.

Reasonable meaning you can see the top of the tire, none of this 1 finger gap crap. The lower an S2000 is the less adjustment you have to set front and rear camber to spec.

If you car is lowered they may not be able to measure caster unless they pull the front bumper off, depending on the type of heads on the machine.

If you car was hit the wall parallel to the wheel face you tie rods and steering racks get bent.




Here's a pic of the impact. I know the lip of the wheel did make contact with the wall and was bent as a result of the accident, although It didn't seem like it was enough to bend a tie rod, or the steering rack for that matter. How would I check to see if the rack or tie rod are bent?

Also, I'm not "slammed" or anything of the sort (not really my thing to be honest). Using the arbitrary "finger gap" method of measuring, I have around a finger gap and change to 2 fingers gap in the front and rear.
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 03:21 AM
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If they are changing camber they must also measure and adjust caster.. moving one has an effect on the other.

Most tech's HATE doing alignments. Find a shop with a dedicated alignment guy or a shop that only does alignments.
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wadzii
If they are changing camber they must also measure and adjust caster.. moving one has an effect on the other.

Most tech's HATE doing alignments. Find a shop with a dedicated alignment guy or a shop that only does alignments.
Yeah, so I've heard lol.

Just got a call back from the shop I took the car to. They told me that they have another location close by that will honor the alignment warranty, so I'm going to give them a shot before I eat the cost and go somewhere else. Hopefully they can resolve it.
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 05:10 AM
  #18  
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Yeah your numbers are a little whack, like the rear toe. Your car will handle better in one direction than the other.

They added a little front toe, which was LUCKY...but smart. This will keep you from shaving off the inside of the tires.

The front camber difference is "eh", but is not the cause of your issue.

Bottom line, bring it someone who will take 15 extra seconds to turn the wheels and measure the caster!!!!

I think you may find low caster. Which if the adjusters are frozen (this is VERY likely, 75% chance) it will stay that way unless they free it up (unlikely) or cut the a-arm from the car, and buy the a-arm bushing from Mugen (honda does not sell it)
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Billman250
Yeah your numbers are a little whack, like the rear toe. Your car will handle better in one direction than the other.

They added a little front toe, which was LUCKY...but smart. This will keep you from shaving off the inside of the tires.

The front camber difference is "eh", but is not the cause of your issue.

Bottom line, bring it someone who will take 15 extra seconds to turn the wheels and measure the caster!!!!

I think you may find low caster. Which if the adjusters are frozen (this is VERY likely, 75% chance) it will stay that way unless they free it up (unlikely) or cut the a-arm from the car, and buy the a-arm bushing from Mugen (honda does not sell it)
Pardon my ignorance, but by adjuster, you mean the adjustment bolt on the lower control arm correct? Also, if it's frozen, would this mean that they could not adjust the caster?

Additionally, thanks for all the help guys. Been trying to figure out this issue for a while now, and have little by little been ruling things out. Reasons like this make a paid membership to this site worth it and then some
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Old Jul 6, 2012 | 08:32 AM
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I think the OP - and maybe not just the OP - should read this recent post:
https://www.s2ki.com/...-daily-driving/

Thanks for posting the alignment prints, both

It is interesting to see Honda, assuming Honda provided the data, changed the rear toe specs per model year.

The front toe spec wasn't really changed, just the range.
The aim is, and was, 0 toe, as in: no toe at the front.
I've been running this for years with about -1[sup]0[/sup]10' front camber without any signs of increased inside tire wear.
There is a picture of my front tires in the other post.
OP: why do you run that much front neg camber?

About the rear toe-in:
Its clear it is Honda's idea - again, if Honda provided the data - to have less rear toe-in as the spec changed from 0,16[sup]o[/sup]-0,32[sup]o[/sup] for the '00-03 to 0,06[sup]o[/sup]-0,22[sup]o [/sup]for the '04-'09.
I see no reason to not use the latest specs for all years.
As a matter of fact, as stated in the other post, I've been running the low spec for toe-in in the rear for a while (*) and it handles great.
For the record, my car is an MY'00 on 16" wheels.
After the recent alignment it still does.
(*) as I found out, while I was thinking running UK-spec.

I wonder what the CR alignment is.
What's so special about a CR anyway...

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