ottawas2000guy

Background information:

• 60,000 Mile AP1.
• Swapped AP2 retainers and upgraded old jet squirters a couple of years ago
• Ballade bolt in baffled oil pan for 80% of my track days.
• Track the car about 4 days a year for the past few years.
• This spring the car was dyno tuned with VAFC NEO with reputable tuner. Car put down decent numbers for that dyno.
• Engine always has pulled hard, sounded perfect and ran great.
• At minimum semi-annual oil changes synthetic Mobil 1 or Castrol, with OEM honda s2000 filter. Usually 3 changes per season
• Basically a well taken care of minimally tracked low mileage s2000 with all the preventative maintenance done to ensure this motor lasted for me! I did not think it would come to this so soon.
• Oil changed after my first 2.5 track days this year the problems started after that..

Problems:

• Previous track day I started to notice power loss in high rpm when engine got hot. Almost like vtec was not functioning or partially functioning. When car cooled power was back throughout the power band.
• After that day, I removed my tune, cleaned and checked MAP sensor connection, scanned engine no codes found, check oil level and was at least at full and clean. I chalked it up to heat and just maybe a fluke situation.
• Track day this past weekend and the same thing occurred. High rpm power loss when engine hot, i.e. 4th lap.
• Checked oil again, and realized that somehow I had really overfilled the oil, I suppose before the previous track day about 1 quart.. So I've now done 4 sessions and street driving with overfilled oil.
• Drained oil to proper level. Figured that would solve the problem. Went back on track and same issue..
• Pulled and cleaned pcv valve assuming maybe their was just a lot of oil in the intake tract, but it was ok.
• Pulled vtec solenoid and found copper flakes.. NOT GOOD.
• Changed oil/filter and looked shockingly clean. Nothing noticeable.
• Drove home 1.5 hours.
• Cut open filter and sure enough more flakes. I assume when I pull the oil pan I will find even more big chunks.
• Note the engine runs and drives great with NO noise or vibrations whatsoever and was pulling hard to redline when not track hot. Of course I haven't tried since I found the copper in the solenoid.

Here are my questions.

Most people will say just source a new engine. This is tempting as it's easy.
1. If I pull the rod bearings and they seem to be the source of the issue any chance of salvaging motor by replacing rod bearings?
2. Any guess on cause of the failure? Could the extra oil really have done it?
3. What is my resale value on my existing motor if I go with replacement.
4. Any other options I should be considering?

Car Analogy

My guess is the overfilling caused the bearing wear issues. It isn't knocking yet, that is a very good sign. If the motor is salvageable, the most important thing is not to drive it. Hopefully that long drive home didn't kill it.

Salvaging will include replacing bearings and very carefully and skillfully hand polishing crank. For rods this can be done with crank and motor still in car. But it requires knowledge and skill. Billman and a few others have that knowledge and skill. Best to consult with one of them.

fly_S2K

Personally, if that's what I saw, I would not continue to drive it. I'd drop the pan to see the extent of copper then proceed to check the rod bearings. Like Car Analogy said, its good that the motor hasn't started knocking yet, but until you dissect the motor, hard to say more at this time.

In regards to the source of failure, too many factors to really narrow one down at the moment. Overfilling can be a cause if it aerated the oil too much and the oil pickup happened to suck up some of those bubbles. But you said you were noticing some HP loss when the car was getting hot or that VTEC seemed like it wasn't functioning. That tells a different story- perhaps one that you may have experienced low oil pressure, low enough that VTEC wouldn't engage.

Maybe oil viscosity thinned out too much? Fuel dilution? or just excessive clearances.

ottawas2000guy

Ya definitely not going to run the motor whatsoever now that I'm truly aware of the issue. I will pull oil pan and start from there. I assume I will find shavings at which point I'll pull the rod bearings to inspect.. Although I do find it hard to believe it was so full that the crank could have been splashing in the oil I guess it's possible, which would aerate the oil and not allow it to be picked up by oil pickup which would stop vtec from working.. Also, I suppose another possibility is that the vtec solenoid filter was so clogged with metal at high rpm that vetch could now longer engage fully or at all. (not sure if partial vtec engagement is possible).

fatjoe10

I think extra diagnosis is a waste of time. With that evidence of copper in the VTEC screen, the engine has to come out for a rebuild anyway. I agree with the others that it is a good sign the engine is not knocking. InlinePro has saved a few cranks for me that came from engines that weren't knocking but had the same condition above.

ottawas2000guy

So you're suggesting that a rebuild is a worthwhile route to explore given what I know so far? I assume you mean, just pulling the crank to have it machined, replace rod & main bearings and reassemble. I.e. Not removing pistons, or honing cylinders, etc which sounds to be expensive and unreliable from most shops. I worry about this metal that is now spread throughout the motor though..

fatjoe10

If it was my car, and the cylinder walls looked perfect, I'd do the following:

-Polish the crank as Car Analogy suggested see if it can be re-used.
-New OEM rings
-New main and rod bearings
-Abradable powder coating on the piston skirts
-Go over the head make sure the valvetrain is ok
-Clean clean and clean the engine to get all those shavings out of there
-Inspect and clean or replace the oil pump.

I'm sure there are many opinions, so consider this my personal advice if I was in this situation.

ottawas2000guy

I appreciate the advice.. If it seems to be a logical, financially sound decision to go that route I may do so and will certainly research in great detail and consult experts on our engines.. But realistically even if I did most of that work myself what is it going to cost and how long will it take compared to just buying a new long block and selling off my current long block.. I'm honestly asking. I'll be into the new motor for what $3500 USD - $1000 USD for my motor? So $2500 and an install over a weekend rather than a few months.. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

windhund116

This is a WAG... but, those particles kinda looks like they are from the main crank thrust bearing. You have troubles starting the engine? Or having it shutdown, abruptly? Did you run a heavy-duty aftermarket clutch pressure plate?

ottawas2000guy

Nope. Motor runs like a champ unless hot on track above 7000rpm. Sounds perfect. Idles beautifully. Original 19yr old clutch/pressure plate.