New S2000 Technical Questions
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Tyler, TX
Hey everyone!
I placed a deposit on an S2000 that is due in the first week of March. I have a question - Do the new S2000 have the clutch recommended in the TSB, or do they only use it when someone complains to the dealer?
Also, I'm a mechanical engineer who has built many racing engines. What is this business about "special break-in oil"? I have never heard of such a thing, but if it does exist, what are the additives that make it special?
On engines that I have built, I break them in on an engine dyno, and even after only 30 - 60 minutes of running on the dyno, the oil is extremely black when it is changed (indicating contaminents). Some of this is caused by the assembly lubes that are used during the build process. From my experience, I would never leave the original oil in the engine for 3000 miles.
I placed a deposit on an S2000 that is due in the first week of March. I have a question - Do the new S2000 have the clutch recommended in the TSB, or do they only use it when someone complains to the dealer?
Also, I'm a mechanical engineer who has built many racing engines. What is this business about "special break-in oil"? I have never heard of such a thing, but if it does exist, what are the additives that make it special?
On engines that I have built, I break them in on an engine dyno, and even after only 30 - 60 minutes of running on the dyno, the oil is extremely black when it is changed (indicating contaminents). Some of this is caused by the assembly lubes that are used during the build process. From my experience, I would never leave the original oil in the engine for 3000 miles.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,210
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From: WA
I think it has been said that the clutch disk was revised so somewhere in production all should have the new one. It was simply an attempt to reduce noise. I have it and it is a bit quieter.
The break-in oil story is pretty widespread with proponents in many dealerships and AHM, but there is no doc on it. A lot of us don
The break-in oil story is pretty widespread with proponents in many dealerships and AHM, but there is no doc on it. A lot of us don
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 186
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From: TO
In case you wanted to know, my brother is a service adviser at a Honda Dealership and I have seen myself the documentation from Honda North America (made to the service dept) stating they highly recommend you leave the original oil in the motor for the recommend 3750 miles. It does mention about special additives in the oil but does not specify what they are. As for me, I switched mine out at 3000 miles and it was dirty!!! Now I'm running Castrol GTX 10w30 with no problems.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Tyler, TX
Thanks for the info.
It's funny - both of you are from Texas. I'm in Tyler. Where did you get your S2000's? I looked everywhere for a dealer who wasn't a crook. We bought an Accord Coupe for my wife last year at Lute Riley Honda, and called my salesman this year about an S2000, thinking he could help me out. Wrong! The best he would do is sell me a used 2000 model with 6K miles for $32K! I ended up puting a deposit on a silver/black one in Lafayette, LA - Not exactly close, but they are selling them for MSRP.
It's funny - both of you are from Texas. I'm in Tyler. Where did you get your S2000's? I looked everywhere for a dealer who wasn't a crook. We bought an Accord Coupe for my wife last year at Lute Riley Honda, and called my salesman this year about an S2000, thinking he could help me out. Wrong! The best he would do is sell me a used 2000 model with 6K miles for $32K! I ended up puting a deposit on a silver/black one in Lafayette, LA - Not exactly close, but they are selling them for MSRP.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Tyler, TX
I guess I won't feel as bad only driving to Louisiana...
As for the break-in oil, I would like to get in touch with someone at Honda and find out why they would recommend leaving the oil in for 3750 miles. Is it due to this 'mystery additive'? Is it to leave the abrasive contaminents in the oil for faster break-in? Is it because they want you to reduce the life of your car so you will need a new car sooner?
I have always changed my oil at around 800-1000 miles in a new car or motorcycle, and I always get well over 100K miles on those with no oil burning. I even had over 125K on an old Honda CB750 motorcycle! I guess my thinking is that even if the factory oil has some additive in it, the highest rate of engine wear occurs during break-in, when the machined parts are wearing together. At this higher wear rate, contaminents are being released into the oil at the highest rate of an engines life, so it is getting the oil 'dirty', and is breaking the oil down quickly. So, I can't imagine that putting fresh oil in could do any harm. I'm leaning towards doing what has worked for me in the past, but I would love to find an e-mail address or phone number of an engineer at Honda to find out the reason for the memo that ITR mentioned.
As for the break-in oil, I would like to get in touch with someone at Honda and find out why they would recommend leaving the oil in for 3750 miles. Is it due to this 'mystery additive'? Is it to leave the abrasive contaminents in the oil for faster break-in? Is it because they want you to reduce the life of your car so you will need a new car sooner?
I have always changed my oil at around 800-1000 miles in a new car or motorcycle, and I always get well over 100K miles on those with no oil burning. I even had over 125K on an old Honda CB750 motorcycle! I guess my thinking is that even if the factory oil has some additive in it, the highest rate of engine wear occurs during break-in, when the machined parts are wearing together. At this higher wear rate, contaminents are being released into the oil at the highest rate of an engines life, so it is getting the oil 'dirty', and is breaking the oil down quickly. So, I can't imagine that putting fresh oil in could do any harm. I'm leaning towards doing what has worked for me in the past, but I would love to find an e-mail address or phone number of an engineer at Honda to find out the reason for the memo that ITR mentioned.
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Cape Girardeau
We need a contact at Honda itself, so questions like this that come up every few months (or weeks in some cases) can be put to rest. I've seen the 3,750 documentation as well, but at 2,300 miles my oil is looking darker than I prefer, and I'm considering changing it sooner than recommended. I really wish someone could put this to rest.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: You wish
Heh, the ol consipiracy theory? It sure would make sense, wouldn't it?
Anyways, being another person who has built a few engines, I'm also a proponent of early changes. On my MY'00 I did my first change at 500 miles with a quality name brand non-synthetic. The oil, as expected, was quite dirty. I changed again at 1000 miles with the same brand and the oil was somewhat cleaner. I then waited till 3000 miles and went to Mobil 1.
At present I have over 10k miles on the car. In normal driving it has never burned any oil. On long trips (1000 mile roundtrip) the oil level never changes. The car has also dyno'd quite nicely at 202 hp and 136 lbs-ft to the wheels (corrected to SAE standard, on a dynojet).
The only time I get any consumption is when I do a lot of high G corners, particularly right-handers. Then oil is siphoned through the valve-cover breather and into the intake tube. I can actually put my finger in the intake tube and come back with fresh oil on it after such a run. Guess I need to do a catch can. Won't prevent the oil level from dropping on the track, but at least I won't burn it then.
If you choose this approach, I don't think you'll have issues, just don't tell your dealer.
UL
Anyways, being another person who has built a few engines, I'm also a proponent of early changes. On my MY'00 I did my first change at 500 miles with a quality name brand non-synthetic. The oil, as expected, was quite dirty. I changed again at 1000 miles with the same brand and the oil was somewhat cleaner. I then waited till 3000 miles and went to Mobil 1.
At present I have over 10k miles on the car. In normal driving it has never burned any oil. On long trips (1000 mile roundtrip) the oil level never changes. The car has also dyno'd quite nicely at 202 hp and 136 lbs-ft to the wheels (corrected to SAE standard, on a dynojet).
The only time I get any consumption is when I do a lot of high G corners, particularly right-handers. Then oil is siphoned through the valve-cover breather and into the intake tube. I can actually put my finger in the intake tube and come back with fresh oil on it after such a run. Guess I need to do a catch can. Won't prevent the oil level from dropping on the track, but at least I won't burn it then.
If you choose this approach, I don't think you'll have issues, just don't tell your dealer.
UL
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Port Angeles
Go to http://www.honda2001.com/owners/service_pa...aqs_fluids.html and it answers several of the questions above including break-in oil.