OEM Hardtop latch screw spinning issue
12-01-2016, 09:06 PM
#1
OEM Hardtop latch screw spinning issue
Well I've searched and searched but finally pretty much stuck at this point
I was removing the OEM latches on the hardtop to replace with some alloycraft security latches, and everything was going smoothly till I got to the very last screw and we were trying to on unscrew it and the head decided to strip on me. Tried a dremel and slot method for a flathead, and that didn't work, thing wouldn't budge period.
On to drilling off the head of the screw to hopefully release the press and just back out the threaded portion by vice grip or hand. (Figured once the screw head was drilled off nothing would basically be holding it on since the pressure was released) Well was all good in thread till we finally drilled of the head and looked down the threads to see blue loctite gushing out of the threads....so basically it was stuck.
On to a mini torch and vice grips, torched the thing a couple of times pretty long. Let it cool down torched it again and again. Finally put the vice grips on and torched it a little while turning...success! It started spinning ...and spinning and spinning. Pretty much kept spinning wouldn't release, so decided to read up and found out that there is a threaded nut spot welded on the inside of the hardtop that if broke free would just spin freely with the screw.
Here's where I'm confused, from what I read everyone who had the nut break free from the hardtop actually still head the head of the screw on thus the nut was still being held on cause of that, but once most people drilled off the head of the nut, the nut and rest of the screw basically just fell into the skin of the hardtop and people just fished it out through the side holes under the panels of the hardtop. I have the head drilled off already but it's stil being held in place despite spinning like the nut gave way....I'm not entirely sure whats holding this in place. I want to just drill out the rest of the screw and use a pop sert to give me new threads but not entirely sure how to drill it out with it spinning how it is.
So basically stuck, screw is spinning like it gave way but for some reason hasn't fallen into the hardtop like everyone else who's had the problem of the nut giving way. Anyone have any ideas?
Picture attached on how it looks like now
I was removing the OEM latches on the hardtop to replace with some alloycraft security latches, and everything was going smoothly till I got to the very last screw and we were trying to on unscrew it and the head decided to strip on me. Tried a dremel and slot method for a flathead, and that didn't work, thing wouldn't budge period.
On to drilling off the head of the screw to hopefully release the press and just back out the threaded portion by vice grip or hand. (Figured once the screw head was drilled off nothing would basically be holding it on since the pressure was released) Well was all good in thread till we finally drilled of the head and looked down the threads to see blue loctite gushing out of the threads....so basically it was stuck.
On to a mini torch and vice grips, torched the thing a couple of times pretty long. Let it cool down torched it again and again. Finally put the vice grips on and torched it a little while turning...success! It started spinning ...and spinning and spinning. Pretty much kept spinning wouldn't release, so decided to read up and found out that there is a threaded nut spot welded on the inside of the hardtop that if broke free would just spin freely with the screw.
Here's where I'm confused, from what I read everyone who had the nut break free from the hardtop actually still head the head of the screw on thus the nut was still being held on cause of that, but once most people drilled off the head of the nut, the nut and rest of the screw basically just fell into the skin of the hardtop and people just fished it out through the side holes under the panels of the hardtop. I have the head drilled off already but it's stil being held in place despite spinning like the nut gave way....I'm not entirely sure whats holding this in place. I want to just drill out the rest of the screw and use a pop sert to give me new threads but not entirely sure how to drill it out with it spinning how it is.
So basically stuck, screw is spinning like it gave way but for some reason hasn't fallen into the hardtop like everyone else who's had the problem of the nut giving way. Anyone have any ideas?
Picture attached on how it looks like now
12-02-2016, 03:50 AM
#2
Two thoughts:
1. It looks like the nut is held in a hex shaped indent in the back of the bracket. Maybe the weld just holds it into that slot. So try pulling out on the vice grips as you unscrew, trying to keep the nut in that slot.
Even if there is no slot, this still might work by creating more friction between nut and bracket than there is between nut and screw (though with locktight having foolishly used by PO that may not now be possible)
2. Maybe if you cut the screw down further, cut as much off as you can, then the nut can fall down in there like others have been able to do. This is risky, cause there is no going back. You lose all loosening options since they'll be no screw to grab with vice grips.
1. It looks like the nut is held in a hex shaped indent in the back of the bracket. Maybe the weld just holds it into that slot. So try pulling out on the vice grips as you unscrew, trying to keep the nut in that slot.
Even if there is no slot, this still might work by creating more friction between nut and bracket than there is between nut and screw (though with locktight having foolishly used by PO that may not now be possible)
2. Maybe if you cut the screw down further, cut as much off as you can, then the nut can fall down in there like others have been able to do. This is risky, cause there is no going back. You lose all loosening options since they'll be no screw to grab with vice grips.
12-02-2016, 05:38 AM
#3
That issue is a bit different than what I had with a broken thread insert. It seems that the threads are stripped and stuck to the bolt with Loctite. You either need to pull the bolt straight out or drill it completely out with a wider drill bit. You probably can't heli-coil the damaged thread insert so drilling it out and replacing it with a new insert is probably what needs to be done as a permanent fix. You can try pulling it upwards with a big ass vice grip, if that fails then you will need to drill it all out, cut the bolt flush and drill out the thread insert with a wider drill bit. Then replace with a new threaded insert which Honda sells or from the aftermarket.
12-02-2016, 07:22 AM
#4
Two thoughts:
1. It looks like the nut is held in a hex shaped indent in the back of the bracket. Maybe the weld just holds it into that slot. So try pulling out on the vice grips as you unscrew, trying to keep the nut in that slot.
Even if there is no slot, this still might work by creating more friction between nut and bracket than there is between nut and screw (though with locktight having foolishly used by PO that may not now be possible)
2. Maybe if you cut the screw down further, cut as much off as you can, then the nut can fall down in there like others have been able to do. This is risky, cause there is no going back. You lose all loosening options since they'll be no screw to grab with vice grips.
1. It looks like the nut is held in a hex shaped indent in the back of the bracket. Maybe the weld just holds it into that slot. So try pulling out on the vice grips as you unscrew, trying to keep the nut in that slot.
Even if there is no slot, this still might work by creating more friction between nut and bracket than there is between nut and screw (though with locktight having foolishly used by PO that may not now be possible)
2. Maybe if you cut the screw down further, cut as much off as you can, then the nut can fall down in there like others have been able to do. This is risky, cause there is no going back. You lose all loosening options since they'll be no screw to grab with vice grips.
Problem is even if we cut off the rest of the screw that's sticking out off, it should have already fallen if the nut gave way from the weld. It's spinning somehow but doesn't seem like the nut weld gave way in the back so it's still being held in place some how. Don't think cutting down the screw till it's flush with the hardtop will do much wirh it falling sadly
12-02-2016, 07:28 AM
#5
That issue is a bit different than what I had with a broken thread insert. It seems that the threads are stripped and stuck to the bolt with Loctite. You either need to pull the bolt straight out or drill it completely out with a wider drill bit. You probably can't heli-coil the damaged thread insert so drilling it out and replacing it with a new insert is probably what needs to be done as a permanent fix. You can try pulling it upwards with a big ass vice grip, if that fails then you will need to drill it all out, cut the bolt flush and drill out the thread insert with a wider drill bit. Then replace with a new threaded insert which Honda sells or from the aftermarket.
we actually want to drill it out and be done with it and use a popsert but problem is that we don't know how to drill it out since the screw is spinning, I'm pretty sure any pressure we put on the screw end with the bit will just cause the screw to spin with the bit. Not sure how to keep the screw in place while trying to drill it out.
we tried pulling the bolt while turning and it didn't budge, just kept spinning in place. We tried pushing down while turn and same result. So pushing or pulling while using vice grips didn't yield any results...I really do wish I could just get it or so I could use a pop sert already and be done with it.
would maybe hitting the end of the screw till the actual bolt weld gives out be a last resort? And the popsert that Honda sells, is it for the same size bolt to be used that oem hardtop used and the actual hole for the popsert where it grabs on to, how big do we have or drill out the hole for that to fit?
12-02-2016, 09:02 AM
#6
Oh, so its almost like the nut is caught in a loose cage. Loose enough to let it spin, tight enough to prevent it from falling out the back.
I'm thinking try whacking the screw with a BFH, to try and break the nut free from whatever weld that is acting like a cage, so it can fall through the back.
If it doesn't break free, maybe this will jam the nut back into whatever its hung up on, enough to then unscrew screw.
I'm thinking try whacking the screw with a BFH, to try and break the nut free from whatever weld that is acting like a cage, so it can fall through the back.
If it doesn't break free, maybe this will jam the nut back into whatever its hung up on, enough to then unscrew screw.
12-02-2016, 09:27 AM
#7
Not entirely sure what you mean by jam the nut back into wherever is hung up on?
the nut is spot welded in between the layers of the hardtop, so I can't access that nut. As far as the actual screw it was a Philipps before and when we drilled off the head to get the latch out of the way we pretty much scrapped the rest of the thread. Also last not when we did the blowtorch and vice grip method I pretty destroyed any threads left period lol. So that picture I posted was a before picture.
i might just try smashing in the thread to get it loose enough to give, maybe then It'll either fall or I can pull it out. Not sure if there's enough space for it to fall inside the head too. If it falls and there's not enough room for it to squeeze between the layers of aluminum then I'm really f'd cause now I can't even drill it out lol.
the nut is spot welded in between the layers of the hardtop, so I can't access that nut. As far as the actual screw it was a Philipps before and when we drilled off the head to get the latch out of the way we pretty much scrapped the rest of the thread. Also last not when we did the blowtorch and vice grip method I pretty destroyed any threads left period lol. So that picture I posted was a before picture.
i might just try smashing in the thread to get it loose enough to give, maybe then It'll either fall or I can pull it out. Not sure if there's enough space for it to fall inside the head too. If it falls and there's not enough room for it to squeeze between the layers of aluminum then I'm really f'd cause now I can't even drill it out lol.
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12-02-2016, 06:04 PM
#8
Definitely odd that the nut doesn't just fall into the frame if it is spinning.. I had this issue and repaired it using the rivet nuts Honda provides. I think the frame is actually multiple parts, but when I removed the screw from mine the nut fell into the frame. (I had the hardtop off of the car and upside down to work on it so I was easily able to recover the nut with the magnet tool.
With mine I was able to grab the screw itself and see that there was some vertical play with the nut that had broken free.
Installing the new rivet nut is a little tricky since you need to open up some space for it to "seat" properly. That area where the hole is is actually a sort of multi-layered setup.
With mine I was able to grab the screw itself and see that there was some vertical play with the nut that had broken free.
Installing the new rivet nut is a little tricky since you need to open up some space for it to "seat" properly. That area where the hole is is actually a sort of multi-layered setup.
12-03-2016, 07:25 AM
#9
Definitely odd that the nut doesn't just fall into the frame if it is spinning.. I had this issue and repaired it using the rivet nuts Honda provides. I think the frame is actually multiple parts, but when I removed the screw from mine the nut fell into the frame. (I had the hardtop off of the car and upside down to work on it so I was easily able to recover the nut with the magnet tool.
With mine I was able to grab the screw itself and see that there was some vertical play with the nut that had broken free.
Installing the new rivet nut is a little tricky since you need to open up some space for it to "seat" properly. That area where the hole is is actually a sort of multi-layered setup.
With mine I was able to grab the screw itself and see that there was some vertical play with the nut that had broken free.
Installing the new rivet nut is a little tricky since you need to open up some space for it to "seat" properly. That area where the hole is is actually a sort of multi-layered setup.
last resort since I can't really drill since the screw is spinning, my only shot is to hit it with a punch and hope that the nut spot welds give out and it drops.
are you talking about the same rivet nut zero mentioned? Is it meant to use the same size screw as the original latch? Open up some space as in you had to drill to make the hole wider? How did you end up seating it?
12-04-2016, 05:25 AM
#10
Another thought. You could grab the screw with some vice grips, then brace them against something to immobilize them.
Then you can drill out screw without it spinning.
Needle nose vice grips might work best, so you can more easily see and get at the screw.
Then you can drill out screw without it spinning.
Needle nose vice grips might work best, so you can more easily see and get at the screw.