If I can trust them then that's good to hear. Motul is my number 1 choice but now since you said the LM Hi Tec 5W40 is an actual group IV full synth oil my interest is piqued so I just might try it next...

Mobil 1 is known to be good but many AP1 owners here over the years have said that they experienced excessive oil burn when using Mobil 1 so...

 

from what i've read, group 4 PAO is more detrimental to seals than group 3.

so i run pennzoil platinum, full group 3 gas to liquid.

 

Oh no...I wouldn't want that to happen. Sigh, this just keeps getting "better and better"

 

Sorry, but that´s a old wife´s tale and / or a real old and dated internet myth. Repeating such storys over and over is pointless and annoying.

Maybe on a oldtimer car from the 70s you get problems with the gaskests from using Group IV engine oil. On all other engines surely not.

As i said before, one can buy the wonderfull book and read it if someone is interested about engine oil.

Or read here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

Thanks for clarifying! I knew that had to be bogus but couldn't be 100% sure at the same time lol.

 

it's not bogus.

this is not a tale, or myth, or a story.

you're speaking of when group 4 synthetics USED to cause leaks a long time ago. They've fixed that problem by adding swelling esters.

what i'm speaking of is the scientific fact regarding various groups of oil and their interaction with seals. this was based on a research article regarding various types of seals and rubber and the effects of the various groups of oil, one through five.

Group IV is more detrimental to seals than Group 3. They counteract this by adding esters to Group 4 to swell the rubber. But the scientific fact remains that Group 4, as is, is more detrimental to seals. They didn't fix the problem with Group 4 oils by magically making group 4 not shrink seals anymore. that is science, and that still holds true. what they did was counteract the problem by adding swelling esters. that doesn't change the fact that group 4 harms seals, it has in the past, it still does today because science. adding swelling esters has stopped the leaks, yes that's true.

However, it is a fact that swelling esters is a process of degrading the seals, although it accomplishes the goal of swelling them to prevent leaks due to shrinkage from Group 4. i do not know if the degradation of swelling esters causes any issues within the lifetime of the car.

I do not have any conclusions on whether Group 4 + swelling esters is better for seals than Group 3 without esters, or if Group 3 has esters or not.

I have the scientific facts regarding the science, but I don't have the conclusion nor the knowledge of what oils have what in them and what the issues are, if any.

So I make my own conclusive guess about what I believe would be best, given what I know and do not know, and I choose to go with full group 3 synthetic, liquid to gas Pennzoil Platinum.

in this day and age, does anyone even know if any synthetic even has any group 4 in it?

this may all be a moot point unless you're buying synthetic in europe.

 

You mean like cork gaskets way back or? I just know intervals with synthetic is all I care about.

 

I know most about it, as i mentioned here earlier, i read in this wonderfull book.

All you have written is absolutely correct, but it is also absoluetly therortical chemical classroom stuff.

Do you really belive that big oil companys like LM in germany or Mobil 1 back then when it was really Group IV sell Gruop IV oils that damage seals in Engines?

Do you really belive that the engineers at the car / Motorcycle manufactures are not aware of this problem and maybe changed the gasket and seal material since Group IV oils avilable?

Do you really belive that the chemical enginers working for the big oil companys dont know about this problem and are unable to create a product with a balanced chemistry and a additive package that work nevertheless without harming the seals?

I personaly have used mainly Group IV oils on many Motorcycles and cars over the last 30 years and never had a gasket leaking early.

Thats scientific claasroom research vs. real life expirience.

 

My father, a mechanic, knows two people perosnally that dealt with oil loss (leaks) after switching old equipment to synthetic. One was Amsoil and was persuaded by their snake oil salesman (it is good oil, but their salesmen will make up the biggest piles of shit stories to convice people to buy it lol) to move to it in his farm equipment and even recommended the oils to use. He started having leaks within a week. Unfortunately that person now is totally against synthetics because of that one experience. So there is some truth and real life experience behind it, but most times it is really about someone who tried synthetics years ago and in very old cars or equipment and that does not really apply anymore. So like most things, the stories originated from some truth but have been greatly exaggerated and carried on for decades

 

I know what you are talking about. Same happend here in Germany in the 70s.

1. Old equipment. As i mentionend earlier, you should not use Group IV in older cars. In my opinion, from 1980 and up you can use Group IV safely.

2. The "tale" that i heard, and i belive it, is: Most old cars and equipment dont have seals that are Group IV safe and, more important, where running all her life with basic group I / II mineral oil. This oil creates sludge inside the engine. Often, this sludge inside was in fact what keep old, worn seals from leaking. Then, somebody put Group IV oil into the engine. Group IV has, compared to Group I/II Oils, a much higher ability to clean the inside of the engine.
So, the Group IV cleans the engien inside, removes the sludge. In no time, the old and worn sealt starts to leak, of course.

And how´s to blame? Of corse not the unsuitable seals, of course not the cheap group I / II oils that create a lot of sludge inside the engine, no, its the Gropu IV oil that has doen a fine job in cleaning the engine inside how is to blame.