jerrypeterson

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dolebludger
Jerry:

Here's my problem in learning. You didn't give your entire alignment specs. You and celenda could help greatly with these, as I'd try them. But I'd need the entire specs to do this. All I really know is that my car handles better now than before I made my adjustments.

cbender

I don't fully understand the physics behind rear-toe, but after changing my alignment settings twice, I found myself most happy with increased negative front camber (-1.5 degrees) and rear camber (-2.5 degrees), stock caster, and essentially ZERO toe-in on all four corners. With these settings, the car's pretty neutral and settled (which I like), and I have no trouble getting the rear to rotate on corner exit. Tire wear seems reasonable -- more on the outsides than the insides, but not so much so that it's annoying. I don't mean to hijack your thread, Richard, but I'd be interested in Jerry's thoughts (hiya Jerry) on the merits of his rear toe settings. Note that I, too, log very, very few miles on the street and don't drive the car in the wet or in snow.

Thanks,
CB
_________________
C. Bender
2001 Silver/Black
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jerrypeterson

Chris,

Are you coming up for the New Year's party at my place?

My thoughts are simple. More toe-in means you can get on the throttle earlier on turn exit. Ever driven a car with four wheel steering? The rear tires turn slightly in the direction the front tires do. Toe-in emulates this because you really only have one side of the car loaded during a turn. Since the tire is already pointed in the direction you want to go, you can apply more throttle and it will fight to go where its pointed. Pretty simple really.

There is unfortunate side effect: scary-ass rear end wobble when braking at the limit. The rear end tends to wiggle more now after jumping on the brakes. As you probably know, when the weight is transferred off the rear suspension the toe settings increase. The reverse is true for acceleration. With the rear suspension unloaded the tires are pointing further towards the inside and if one of the two tires loses grip the wagging starts. Its pretty freaky, but more a nuisance than a problem since you do your hardest braking in a straight line.

jerrypeterson

Here is the cliff notes version on toe settings:

Toe-in (front or rear) improves turn exit

Toe-out (front or rear) improves turn entry.

Our rear suspension will toe-out with additional weight on the rear (acceleration). AKA Squat. Toe-in will increase as you move to the top of suspension travel (braking) AKA Nose-dive.

A useful setting for front wheel drive cars is dailing in Toe-out on the rear to help the car get rotated for turn exit.
A useful setting for nose heavy cars is running toe-out on the front tires to improve the turn-in transition.
A useful setting for cars with lots of power is toe-in on the rear to help power out of turns
A useful setting for rear heavy cars is toe-in on the front because the inside front wheel lift.

Toe-in will help keep the car straight
Toe-out will help the car turn

Make sense/help?

dolebludger

Chris and Jerry:

Thanks, I'll check these setttings out. Question. Are either of these the "UK" settings I've been hearing about?

Thanks,
Richard

jerrypeterson

Similar but no. Both our settings are more agressive.

Hyper-X

The above mentioned concerns don't sit on the list of major concerns with me.

The OEM intake system isn't the ultimate design, but it does a great job for what it's worth. The radiator's top shield prevents hot hair to be drawn in as the physical appearance would indicate. (that's the black plastic piece that covers the access to the receiver dryer forward of the radiator). It still can be improved on by using products from Injen, AEM, Mugen and such.

Understeer is very minimal and I can only notice it under a very specific condition which doesn't bother my driving style. This condition is preferable to have IMO, because I'd imagine having too much of a neutral condition may prove a tad unsafe at very high speeds in a corner. Too much or too little of anything is no good (as you may already know) but understeer in certain situations can prove useful. Some understeer allows me to get on the throttle sooner and harder, especially in a high speed turn... since I'm familiar with using the throttle to steer the car under certain conditions.

1st gen S2000's I believe had a firmer rear suspension allowing for snap oversteer and I think the 2nd gen MY02-03 were tuned softer to help correct or minimize this condition. Tire wear is a double edged sword. High grip means increased wear but better cornering, acceleration and braking. Honda UK has tried and tested a special alignment spec than the US and many here have said good things about it. Having negative camber does result in uneven tire wear, but using high wearing S02's also add to the mix.

A major concern with the S2000 is wet driving, due to the OEM S02 tires which don't channel water away as quickly as... the tires that look like they have a butt-crack down the middle. Another concern is the MAP sensor which seems to be the culprit behind many bogging issues. There are more but you'll find them if you do a search.

dolebludger

Hyper-X

The only solution for wet weather performance driving in the s2k is DON"T. That is, unless you want to switch to a less agressive all season tire. Or you could do what I do when caught in the rain. I pretend I'm driving a cruddy old pickup truck with bald tires, and drive as such. It works.

As for the air intake issue, I don't know what to say. The radiator does have a plastic piece along to top to reduce heat some. But then there's that pannel from grill top to radiator brace that keeps ALMOST all of the air from the grill from reaching the intake. All the other cars I looked at in figuring out what to do had either direct access to air from the grill or sucked it in from a fender well. That's why I incorporated both methods.

Thanks,
Richard.

S2k_fever

I think the car suffers from oversteer not understeer.

dolebludger

S2K-fever:

I'm comming to the sneaking suspicion that these cars are delivered new to us with so many different alignments that some may oversteer and some may understeer. I wonder if Honda even KNOWS what the optimun alignment specs are.

Thanks,
Richard