Mike,
your "d-bag" comment shows you are a noob and your join date proves it.
Here is an icon ...

 

Aww, poor sillyboy, did I offend your boyfriend? My bad sweety!

Mike

 

 

Lucky YOU!
So before you enter the canyon, you call ahead to ask if anyone is going the other way?
That would be cool.

My main point was that 40 weight have no benefits in the S2000.

Extrememly high shear rating?
(I will not get you on a typo - maybe I have made a couple too - but it is sheAr)
Does that mean it shears a lot?
Or does it mean it doesnt?
I think you talking about the HTHS, right?
To be honest I could not find any HTHS for the T6 given by Shell.
I did find a couple of pdf's on Rotella T6, all without HTHS values.
Most of them state how great this oil is, compared to a 15W-40.
C'mon, 15W-40... that oil is as old as the dino's it is made of.

So what is the HTHS of Rotella T6?
And what are your thoughts on HOW T6 gets its HTHS rating?

Regardless of HTHS, the T6 oil is thicker than a 30 weight during Newtonian flow and it will produce higher oil pressure.
This means you will limit the output of the oil pump, because the oil pump bypass is just a spring loaded piston, opening at a certain pressure.
The sooner the oil pump reaches this pressure, it will go - partly to fully - into bypass, dumping part of the oil fow into the sump.
40 weights will make this happen at a lower engine rpm.
That's why I do not like them.
Also, thicker oil will take more power to pump around.
Plain and simple.
(not bad for a d-bag.. right?)

Enjoy

 

I'm not even gonna pretend I know all the nuances of oil.

HTHS rates oil viscosity and shear at 150C/302F. All SAE 0W-30,5W-30,10W-30,0W-40,5W-40 and 10W-40 ratings have the exact same minimum HTHS requirements. (2.9 at 150C/302F) . So a 10W-40 is NOT necessarily any thicker at 150C than a 0W-30.

Now, Shell doesn't openly give out their HTHS info (I had to email them), and it looks like the HTHS is 4.2. (In this case the T6 is thicker, but Valvoline Maxlife is a 5w-30 with an HTHS value of 3.5 which would make it thicker then some other 5,10,15w-30s and 40s).

My point is, oils with a high shear rating are designed for high performance engines (which I think our engines are) as they offer better protection as the oil heats up. Is it a bit thicker, sure. Is there any evidence that our engines have been or will be damaged from its use? Not sure. You said you used 40w oil for 10 years, did it have a high shear rating, and if so, was there any damage from it being a thicker oil?


Mike

 

Not to get in between you two love birds, but Spitfire is one of the more knowledgeable guys around here (expert?)--you would see that if you did a quick search.

A petty argument between a "normal" user and a user like Spitfire would be just as bad as the people who argue with say Billman or RedMX5 or xViper or RoadRage.

If you don't know who any of those guys are, you need to peruse this forum a bit more before starting arguments. Just my $0.02.

P.S. https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/358...-oil-journals/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/875...30-weight-oil/

 

If you want to stay with the Rotella family and try a 10W-30, the T5 is an excellent choice. I've seen some extensive testing done on it and it rolls in at an honest 3.8 HTHS, and viscosity index of 145. That would give you the protection you are looking for, and little better performance.
There's nothing wrong with the T6. Heck, Honda tested and certified the engine for both 10W-30 and 5W-40 engine oils. But as Spitfire says, you will lose some performance with a higher viscosity oil. That's not even debatable.

 

First off, I didn't start the argument. Secondly, I'm well aware of Spitfires reputation on this Internet forum, but that doesn't make his word gospel! Just because a person spends a tremendous amount of time on the Internet does not make them an expert on anything! I have a broken watch that's correct twice a day in case you ever need the time!

I only disagree with Spitfire because he has no substantial evidence that points to his being correct. If he had evidence that pointed to it being a bad oil, then I may put some clout in what he said.

 

[quote name='INDYMAC' timestamp='1340045499' post='21791360']
If you want to stay with the Rotella family and try a 10W-30, the T5 is an excellent choice. I've seen some extensive testing done on it and it rolls in at an honest 3.8 HTHS, and viscosity index of 145. That would give you the protection you are looking for, and little better performance.
There's nothing wrong with the T6. Heck, Honda tested and certified the engine for both 10W-30 and 5W-40 engine oils. But as Spitfire says, you will lose some performance with a higher viscosity oil. That's not even debatable.
[/quote

I've used the oil you mentioned before.

As I posted earlier, just because the number value is higher doesn't mean the oil has a higher viscosity at operating temps. Now, in the case of the T6 it does; however, there is no proof that performance has been effected. Just because someone has a shit ton of posts on the Internet does not mean they are correct.

And, for the record, I'm not discounting what you've said.

Mike

 

All the argument I started was adding a to the "driving consistently hard" comment.
I never used any d-bag comments.

So...

I'm not a tribologist, I never claimed I was, I'm just an oil enthousiast.
I did read more than the average guy about oil - makes me an enthousiast.. right? - on the internet.

Fact is no one but Honda knows for sure how much HTHS the F2x needs to survive.
But....
Given the fact Honda recommends a 30 weight as standard oil and a 5W-40 for colder climates (so IMO its about the 5W) it will do 9k-all-day on a 30 weight and the HTHS they had in 1999.
Read the owners manual.
Also, the 5W recommendation during cold starts made it clear to me cold temp flow is important.
Given the fact Honda recalled engines in Europe to change the oil jets I've concluded oil flow at high revs/operating temp is important.
It is not rocket science.
Add the 2 facts and my opinion together and you'll end up using a 0W-30.
2012's 0W-30's - or any 30 weight - will outperform the oils of 1999, without a doubt in my mind so who needs a 40 weight?

Are the F20's and F22's high performance engines?
Yes.
Do they need a high HTHS to live?
No.
Does it hurt?
No.
Does it help?
No.

The F20/22's are I4's and every piston pushes on 1 big-end.
Not like V6-8-10's where pistons share a big-end.
This V-configuration puts a higher load on those journals and the crank is short as well.
A V6 crank has less main journals than an I4 crank.
And that is why (IMO) they needs 40-60 weights to live.
"Our" little 4-banger doesn't need this.
It creates its power through revs.
Honda went through a lot of research to reduce friction (roller valve train, FRM, etc) to allow the revs.
Crank journals create their own oil pressure by revs too.
This is much higher than the oil pump pressure.
You could say - and I do! - that because of the high revs you would like a lot of fresh oil being fed into those bearings.
And this is why I DO NOT like 40 weights as they limit the oil flow - the how & why is pure physics.
(I'll say it again, maybe this time I will get a reaction on this from the OP.. )

Oh well..

If this thread proves anything its the fact oil debates are like politics & religion debates.
Criticizing - or asking questions about - ones oil decision is personal.

Feel free though.
I can take it.
Without d-bag comments.