I don't think you, personally, are a d-bag, I just though your comment came off a little d-baggish; I apologize if it offended you. Again, I'm not calling you a d-bag.

Now, let's get this argument back on track, as it appears we are both fluid geeks. . . .

I understand what you are saying regarding 40w oils, however, I've already shown that not all 40w is created equal. A 30w with a shear rating of 4.0 is thicker than a 40w with a shear rating of 3.0; period! As I've already said, in the case of the T6 it is thicker than some other 40w, but that does not mean all 40w is the same thickness, and that 40w will necessarily inhibit oil flow. Now, a 40 does need more additives in order to remain at that viscosity, that much is true.

The T6 is still the same thickness when cold as any other 5W motor oil. The only difference comes when the oil gets hotter. With that being said, if your comparing two oils with an HTHS rating of 2.9 (industry standard), then they will both be the same thickness when hot, regardless of their viscosity number.

None of this really matters though, because neither of our opinions is going to change.

Again, I apologize for the D-Bag comment. It was not meant to be taken as me calling you a D-Bag (although I can see how it was taken as such).

Mike

 

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the original engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

The HT/HS Viscosity, cP min for Castrol Edge with SPT 0W-30 is 2.9.

isnt that a lil high for 0w-30?

 

It may seem high, but that is actually the industry MINIMUM for all oils, regardless of their viscosity. You have to remember that the '0' is referring to the oils viscosity in cold weather (I can't remember the temp. they test it at off the top of my head), and the 30 is what the oil viscosity is at temp (202 or 212F). It all stems from the dual viscosity oil as it compares to a single viscosity oil. So, let's say that you were using a SAE 15; that oils viscosity will be the same throughout the entire temperature range until it begins to shear. Where as a dual viscosity oil (0W-30 for instance) will have a higher viscosity oil at temp than it did at initial start up.

I think I said all that right, LOL.


Mike

 

I like AMS motor oil used it in every Honda iv had. This what i have in my S2K atm it seems to like it. My link

Only fluid i dont like from AMS is the Synchromesh Transmission fluid at least for S2K's seems to burn up a little faster then the Honda stuff.

 

True.
But, those 30 weight oils do not exist - as far as I know.
And this is only at 150C during "high shear" test conditions, that's why it is called HTHS = High Temp High Shear.
Or when the oil is in this state in the engine.
The only place where this can happen is IMO in crank/connecting rod journals.
There is no reason the think a 30 weight in those conditions can not handle it.
In all other cases the oil behaves Newtonian, it flows under it own weight/mass.
And that is measured in centistokes.
Well.. yes it does.
Acros the temp range and stress load a 40 weigth will be thicker and will produce more oil pressure.
This is too general.
It all depends on the base oils used to create the oil.
From what I remember seeing in Shell pdf datasheets on T6 is that is has a pretty low viscosity index.
So the T6 could be made of a single syn base oil that happens to meet the 5W spec, without too many - or any at all - viscosity index improvers.
It would also explain the relatively high HTHS value.
No.
The 5W spec is a minimum requirement at a certain temperature (-30C or -35C depending on the spec)
When 2 oils meet 5W does not mean they have the same viscosity at that temp.
They just meet the 5W spec but could - and most likely are - anywhere the 5W and 0W.
The next spec down (0W) is at another temp so you can not even compere the values.
And, by default, a 0W oil also meets the 5W spec so if you want to sell polupar 5W oils you are not even lying when you sell a 0W oil as 5W.
But the last is besides the point and more related to polular 10W oils - labelling 5W oils as 10W for marketing reasons.
At 150C yes.
And only at 150C.
And only under HTHS conditions.
Base your opinions and solid facs and be carefull to base them on half thruths and mixtures of ideas and facts.
Up to here it is not bad.
It is not cold weather but a given temperature in C.
And the high temp is "set" at 100C.
Here you lost it.
Even a single SAE 15, or SAE 30 or 40 will change viscosity getting warm, hot or stone cold.
The viscosity of a single grade is spec'd by the 15, 30 or 40 (with SAE 15 not being an actual spec) at 100C.
No spec on low temps viscosity, it can turn as thick as molasses.
A multigade can only call itself a multigrade when it meets 0/5/10W spec, at SAEJ300 given temps.
In any case: ALL oils change viscosity from cold to hot.


Btw.. was it dirt bag or douche bag?
I could live with the first one

 

The only ones I found were Amsoil Euro Car 5W-30 has an HTHS of 3.7, and Mobile 1 ESP 5W-40 has an HTHS of 3.8. They're not the same, but pretty close. If I remember correctly, Castrol Edge Ti is also pretty high, but they don't publish the HTHS. Valvoline also makes a 5W-30 that meets ACEA A3/B3 standards which prescribe an HTHS minimum of 3.5, so it may come close to matching a 40, but again no HTHS is given on their website.

I don't know a whole lot about additives. But you're right, it's all on the base oil used. Group 4 and 5 bases use very little, if any, additives. I'm not sure what base is used in the T6.

Yes, 0W and 5W both share the same minimum cSt of 3.8 @ 100C, so yes, you could market them as either. I can't find the cSt info for the T6, but I would imagine it is 3.8 as that appears to be the minimum standard for 0W and 5W, but I could be wrong.

What half truth's am I basing my opinions on? Where is the mixture of ideas and facts?Yeah,

I knew that I wrote that wrong as soon as I posted it. lol

No, an SAE10 oil will be the same when cold AND when hot. As per UPMPG.com:

Why don't we just use a SAE 10 motor oil so we can get instant lubrication on engine start up?
The reason is simple: it would be a SAE 10 motor oil at 210° F! The lower the viscosity, the more wear will inevitably occur. This is why it is best to use the proper oil viscosity recommended by the auto manufacturer as it will protect hot and at cold start ups. Obviously a 10W-10 motor oil won't have the film strength to prevent engine wear at full operating temperature like a 5W-20, 10W-30 or 5W-30 motor oil for example.

The VI additives have the effect of keeping the oil from thinning excessively when heated. The actual mechanics of this system are a little more complex in that these additives are added to a thinner oil so that it will be fluid at a cold temperature. The VI additives then prevent thinning as the oil is heated so that it now can pass the SAE viscosity rating at 210. For example; if you have a SAE 10 motor oil it will flow like a 10W at the colder temperature. But at 210 degrees it will be a SAE 10 giving us a 10W-10 or SAE 10 viscosity rating. Obviously this is good at cold start up, but terrible at engine operating temperature especially in warmer climates. But by adding the VI additives we can prevent the oil from thinning as it is heated to achieve higher viscosity numbers at 210 degrees. This is how they make a petroleum based motor oil function for the 10W-30 rating. The farther the temperature range, like with a 10W-40, then more VI additives are used. With me so far? Good, now for the bad news.

And here is the link for the entire page: http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
I think you know which D-bag I was using. But, again, I apologized for that comment.

And, no, I haven't figured out how to separate the quotes, LOL.

Mike

 

Well.. the Amsoil AEL is pretty close to the 40 weight spec at 12.3 cSt at 100C, much like the good old German Castrol 0W-30.
IAW, with the differences during production, some AEL would probably be a 40 weight, labbeled as a 30 weight.

That spec is only valid if it is a single grade oil, like they used to have before multigade oils.
SAE 30 in summer, SAE 10W in winter, that's where the W = Winter idea came from.
In reality, the letter "W" was not choosen by SAE to stand for "Winter".
I do not recall what it does stand for OR if it stands for anything, I've seen a post on BITOG about this where it is all explained.
W = Winter is an urban myth.

See above and below

I'll just pick a misleading - half truth- statement out of your UPMPG quote:
First of all, SAE 10 does not exist.
The lowest official SAE spec is 20.
The minimum 100C cSt for SAE 10W oil is 4.1 cSt, that is a little lower than an SAE 20, there is no HTHS spec'd for 10W oils so we don't know how an SAE 10W oil will do in a modern engine.
Those oils were used though, before multigrade oils, so engines used to work with it.
Probably low revving low spec power V8's used in the 30's 40's, etc.
IF the SAE 10 would be an official spec it could be between 2,0 and 5,6 cSt at 100C (just guessing - based on the step between 30-20)
That is pretty thin but if your engine is designed around it, it wil work.
The thinner = more wear comment is simply not true.
20 weights have been around in the US for a while now.
Where are all the blown-up, worn-out engines using this oil?
They are not there.
20 weights work.
There was a post - a while ago - where an S2k owner by mistake used a 20 weight - without knowing.
An oil analysis showed nothing out of the ordinairy, all normal.
I would not recommend going to the track with a 20 weight, but under basic DD it will just work, even in an S2k.
Not that I'm using it or will recommend it, stick with 30 weight for the S2000.

It is not that hard.
You can type it yourself.
Start quote ={quote}
End quote ={/quote}
Use [ instead of {, so I could actually type it without making the forum software thinking I'm quoting.
Or highlight the text and then click "insert quotation" icon, 3rd from the right in the row with the

We can drop the d-b stuff now....