Soo, some of you may recall I spun a bearing in my stock '01 (170K).
I've looked, and just cant find a definitive answer to this below - thoughts?

If I buy a clean '05 AP2 engine with 90K on it, and just swap it out - with no change to ECU, and as little change to anything else as possible (I believe there is very little needed?), and just drive, here's what I think I know:
- I have a bunch more power
- The car still thinks redline is at 9000 (and this is actually/probably/maybe/some-people-say just fine). Yes it has longer stroke, and higher piston speed, but
- Everything else is just hunky-dory, and I now have an AP1 that magically has more power, good for the next 100K miles (maybe), because the engine is so bulletproof in the first place(?).

This is my daily driver, though I do drive with, shall we say,"Verve".

While this may possibly be heretical in some camps, when getting down to the facts.....am I missing something?

I feel like I'm missing something important but....given how great these F20/F22 engines are....and I'm not tracking it or doing any other mods....what really is the problem? What is likely to happen that wouldn't under normal conditions anyway? With keeping the ECU and therefore, from an instrumentation standpoint, the 9K redline, is there anything critical that needs to be done to ensure it just works as it should?

Any wisdom is much appreciated!

(bracing for the hysterical laughter....)

 

The F22 makes the same amount of HP lower in the rev range than the F20. The F22 HP curve is already starting to drop off at the 8200 rev limit. Going to 9000 RPM then would be kind of pointless. You could rev it out to 9k RPM if you needed the extra RPMs in like a AutoX or tracking but for tooling about everyday there's no point to it.

 

The F22 makes more torque not more hp and like ZZ said it hits that peak HP at 8200 so really no point in reving it out to 9000. I guess revving it out to 9k could put additional wear on the engine but I don't think it'd cause sudden failure. The F22 has multiple reliability improvements over the F20 better valve train, oil jets etc so thats all a positive.

 

The F22 makes 3hp less *on paper*.

SAE HP rating specs were revised ~2004 or something. If the F22 was rated in 2003 or before, the advertised HP numbers would be higher.

Almost any dyno will show some power gain with the 2.2L over the 2.0L.

I have an AP1 and AP2. The AP2 has like 65K more miles on it and its still a bit quicker.

Look at drag times for stock S2000's, and the trend would show that AP2's are faster.

Factually, AP2's are generally quicker and the F22 is objectively a better engine.

Yeah, maybe its mostly because of the fatter curve or the better gearing.


However...
I WOULD want to mate the F22 to an AP2 trans to keep it in VTEC on 8.2K RPM shifts, and I would NOT rev to 9K.

Would I put a F22 in my AP1 if my 2.0 blew up?

Reasons for yes:
-The F22 is a better engine
-The F22 makes more HP and torque
-The fatter power makes the F22 feel more lively
-Low end and midrange power is beneficial at the track and street


Reasons for no:
-Ever tunnel blasted a F20C?

 

I will just add to bring back around to the main question, yes its totally fine to run the 04-05 swap with the ap1 ecu.

Yes you will have an extended rpm limit. No it will not suddenly grenade if you take it there on an f22, but reasonable logic will tell you that you will be reducing the overall cylinder longevity over time if you are living above 8500rpm regularly.

The ap1 trans is a fine pairing to this motor. I've run both trans with it. But If you want to up the overall performance a bit to not drop out of vtec on short shifts, pick up a vafc/neo and lower vtec and run a adjustable fpr to mechanically add some fuel back in the curve for the mid range and fine tune the whole fuel curve with the neo. Simple and cost effective.

 

Why yes I have, funny you mentioned Especially delightful with a supercharger hooked up to one.

 

The fact that the tunnel blasting reason alone makes me question all my logical reasoning indicates that I'm a fairly rad fellow.

Perhaps you are as well?

 

Any lower horsepower in the AP2 engine is most likely due to the way HP was computed after the standards changed in 2005. And remember, that's all horsepower is: a mathematical formula made up by Jim Watt so we peasants and farmers could understand the concept. Torque times rpm divided by 5252 in imperial units. Relatively few of us are familiar with the work a horse can do so the original concept is hard for us to really understand so we just accept it.

The AP2 engine is undersquare (stroke is longer than the bore diameter) which mechanically limits the rpm limits to a speed lower than the AP1's shorter stroke so you can't just decide to rev to 9000 just 'cuz the AP1 ECU will let you. There's a good engineering reason all high revving engines are oversquare (bore diameter is larger then the stroke).

-- Chuck

 

Not sure if i'm quite as Rad as you, but maybe one day

 

Right, that's all fine and dandy, but extensive "field testing" would show otherwise on the rpm limit of the f22 bottom end. Just need to have the right expectations about longevity if one is planning on regularly exceeding 8500rpms- equivalent F20 piston speeds)