viscreal2000

Hi Everyone,

(sorry about the length should have seperated the two subjects)

Need some advice on the now re-coccuring theme of bad luck I seem to have with new parts!(mugen header, kit, etc) I bought new rims 3 weeks ago but they came in the wrong offset which although small kind of bugged me. So I called the shop and told them the following day that I had noticed this and would like to get the offset I had ordered. He told me maybe there was nothing he could do (like I was bugging him) but would contact the wheel coompany and see if they had what I wanted. Several days later he calls me back to say they have them, but not in the Exact style as before. I call him the next day after I have decided that I would get the new set, and expressed my concern about damaging the current rims I have since It would be several more days until they arrived. He said to just come in when the new ones arrived.
Well, sure enough on the day before I bring my car in I scratch the right side, (both rims). They tell me that if I want the new set I have to wait for Jim (the guy who was helping me out) to get back from vacation (tommorow). Or, buy the two (scratched rims) since I am there at the shop.I'm kind of pissed and express to him (very nicely) that I had warned jim that this could happen. Anyway, I tell him I will buy them so I can go home.
Well, the rims don't fit because the center is not bored correctly! The guy heading the shop tells me that they will have to wait until jim get's back to sort this mess out, and expect that the fastest they can get a new set is 12 days! But this presents a new dillema. Drive back with the scratched set since this has already caused problems, or go back on my stock set (left there since last time) which is missing 2 rear tires. Well, I finally decide to take the stock set (with used tires), even though my camber and toe in are out of alignment because of the 16inch size. On the way home my car is all over the road and I call back the shop halway home and tell them this. They tell me there is nothing they can do for me until tuesday. I am pissed, because I find out they put my front so2's BACKWARDS so not only am I running the wrong rim up front my tread on the so2's are fighting backwards. If I just cancel the whole thing and refund my credit card am I being a jerk? Or, do you think I am justified in the return and getting a different set somewhere else?
The reason I ask is the guy told me I was being selfish about (the scratched rims) and I was in the wrong. Also,I'm not too sure about this whole drilling the rim. What do you guys think? Advise asap!


MUGEN DYNO

After that F!!ked up day I went to get my car dynoed as I had finished putting on all my mods. Mugen headers, exhaust, and last the mugen ecu which was installed the previous evening (THANKS CLIFF!!!) Install was a breeze and so for posterity , raced another member from 3,000 rpm and pulled away from 4,500 til 9...EASILY (sorry cliff) That said for real world , I was wondering what numbers I was showing.
By the way as a baseline my car was dynoed in may of last year on 2 seperate occassions. I say this because I know the numbers will be met with some skepticism (especially the way the board was back then). Believe me, that's why I took it to two seperate places.

stock = at 10,472 miles
May 12 74 degrees ambient temp inside

214.6hp@8200rpm 142.1 lbs@7400rpm
213.9hp@8200rpm 140.7 lbs@7400rpm
214.1hp@8200rpm 141.3 lbs@7400rpm

At this point after reading posts on this board about stock numbers thought something was wrong. Went back with a friend who had his mustang dynoed (dissapointingly)here several times. Our point was to see if numbers had changed from his base as well. (I paid)(; Although #s are less ..not by much.

ambient temp 81 (p.s. moisture humidity etc. are taken as well. No significant differences)

rpm same as above

212.4hp 137.5
213.1hp 139.2
212.6hp 138.3

My car is # 3259 (got the chrome wheels) maybe the rumor is true? Anyway, I was'nt complaining and my friend had actually gained from the last time (ford exitement...yeah right) in just about the right amounts for having added exhaust.
The recent upgrades especially the ECU (Randy thanks for the fed-ex!!) made for better throttle response, and in city driving improved without hesitation or bogging I sometimes had from stock. I have no doubt now that Mugen is'nt just a name brand premium. So here's my numbers with all three added.

Mugen headers, Exhaust, ECU, K&N Filter in box.FYI my car weighed in at 2774lbs minus spare + full stereo system (: !

Only had 2 readings while numbers above had seven.

temp was a cool 58 farenheit

222.6hp 148.4
223.1hp 149.7

All I can say after spending close to a hard won 4 bills is . IT WAS WORTH IT!!!!......LOL! I guess I have to laugh at myself a little bit after reading this and seeing how insane that sounded for a whopping improvement of 10hp. My girl must really love me....HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!

p.s. R&T 0-60 4.9 is right. Ran against a nice guy in his turbo LS1 civic again (in the middle of writing this (: )who's getting low 13s in the quarter and am now pulling away!!!!!!4 Grand.....tottally worth it, especially seeing his face at the light!!

regards,
marcus

viscreal2000

p.s. wanted to post a last pic of my car before getting new rims....maybe. Anyone have a good buy on racing hart c5's?

loki

Visreal,

Get a refund man and buy those rims from someone else. It's not worth doing business with a company screwing you like they are.

If they don't do it, sick the Better Business Bureau on them. I've had great luck with them in the past and it seems they really put the screws on people (VW at least). Just document and date everything that's happen to date along with converstations, etc.

After seeing the Comptech S/C S2000, I love these rims!



[This message has been edited by loki (edited January 01, 2001).]

ST

MArcus,
WHere did you dyno at? Is it the Dyno Room in Santa Clara or that place in Sunnyvale? At any rate, your car is very impressive stock. Curious where you're doing business with on the rims, since I've been contemplating some upgrades myself.

ST
01' S2K

NSXER

[QUOTE]Originally posted by viscreal2000:


p.s. R&T 0-60 4.9 is right. Ran against a nice guy in his turbo LS1 civic again (in the middle of writing this (: )who's getting low 13s in the quarter and am now pulling away!!!!!!4 Grand.....tottally worth it, especially seeing his face at the light!!

One of the most capable Acura/Honda "tuners" in the USA is Mark Basch of Basch Acura Service, Phoenix. He has installed, "dyno" and street/strip tested a wide variety of S- 2000s and NSXs with varying performance equipment including CT superchargers. According to his considerable experience, a 0-60 time of 4.9 seconds for non-SC cars is NOT correct; the claim that an S-2000 with 222 RWHP is capable of "running away" from a "low 13s" quarter mile car is NOT correct. Given Basch's (confirmed by CT) post SC dyno results, it is clear the HP gain occurs above 6,000 RPM with little benefit "off the line". Further, those S-2000s with I/H/E upgrades (making approx. 220 RWHP) were only marginally faster from 0-60; although they did demonstrate faster times/trap speeds in the quarter-mile, the gain again results primarily from HP increases in the upper RPM band. These observations (and both 0-60 and quarter-mile results) can be confirmed by the folks at both Comptech and RM Racing.
Understand I mean no disrespect to the S-2000; it is one terrific car. As we are an "all Honda family" (I own a CT/Dali Racing eqipped NSX, my son owns a Y2K Integra Type R, my wife will take delivery of her 2002 TL Type S in March), it is clear how much we admire the marque.
It is bad enough to suffer those fools who proffer criticism of the NSX/S-2000 without ever having driven one; we owners of said cars should not stoop to their level by making outrageous and/or unsubstantiated claims regarding their capabilities.

Stealthy_S2K

Hi, viscreal2000. Didn't mean to spoil you. The temp which were measured at the difference is 28 degree F. That is a lot of difference. Just look at your own result. One from 74 F which were highest number compare with the result from 81F. There are only 2HP difference. Remember the lower the temp more dense the air is. I think the relation is square(Please correct me if I am wrong). In conclusion, it is pretty obvious the result from 58F is the highest. Granted, you have all the mod, I am sure they also contribute to gaining HP.

If we uses the result from 74 as base.
58F +8.5HP
74F 0.0HP
81F -1.5HP

You can see the relationship yourself. When dyno the car. Engine is really sensitive with ambient temp. Most of the dyno chart that I have seen. The very good number always comes out as the first run of the day. The subsequent run will yeild lower number. as the room has already heet up by the first run.

I think you should dyno your car again at 74F and see the difference. No doubt, the mod has gain you throuttle response and lower the VTEC RPM that make your car produce more power than other S2K at the same RPM. You will see the same effect as putting a Lightweight flywheel also gain you few feet.

I don't mean to dump you a bucket of cold water. I, myself, is looking forward a ECU upgrade. I am very appreciate the number you are sharing.

2x6spds

[quote]Originally posted by NSXER:

Quote:

Originally posted by viscreal2000:


p.s. R&T 0-60 4.9 is right. Ran against a nice guy in his turbo LS1 civic again (in the middle of writing this (: )who's getting low 13s in the quarter and am now pulling away!!!!!!4 Grand.....tottally worth it, especially seeing his face at the light!!

One of the most capable Acura/Honda "tuners" in the USA is Mark Basch of Basch Acura Service, Phoenix. He has installed, "dyno" and street/strip tested a wide variety of S- 2000s and NSXs with varying performance equipment including CT superchargers. According to his considerable experience, a 0-60 time of 4.9 seconds for non-SC cars is NOT correct; the claim that an S-2000 with 222 RWHP is capable of "running away" from a "low 13s" quarter mile car is NOT correct. Given Basch's (confirmed by CT) post SC dyno results, it is clear the HP gain occurs above 6,000 RPM with little benefit "off the line". Further, those S-2000s with I/H/E upgrades (making approx. 220 RWHP) were only marginally faster from 0-60; although they did demonstrate faster times/trap speeds in the quarter-mile, the gain again results primarily from HP increases in the upper RPM band. These observations (and both 0-60 and quarter-mile results) can be confirmed by the folks at both Comptech and RM Racing.
Understand I mean no disrespect to the S-2000; it is one terrific car. As we are an "all Honda family" (I own a CT/Dali Racing eqipped NSX, my son owns a Y2K Integra Type R, my wife will take delivery of her 2002 TL Type S in March), it is clear how much we admire the marque.
It is bad enough to suffer those fools who proffer criticism of the NSX/S-2000 without ever having driven one; we owners of said cars should not stoop to their level by making outrageous and/or unsubstantiated claims regarding their capabilities.

______________

Hi NSXer

I was a bit surprised at how harsh your response to Viscreal's report. His report is substantiated, it's a first person testimonial. We don't know if the SC Si was running poorly that night, or if the Civic owner's report of 13 second times was an exaggeration, or if V's Mugenized S2000 is just quicker. Certainly, 220+HP at the wheels is impressive, as were his 'before' numbers. Does Mark Basch have an opinion as to whether MT's 5.2/13.8 second report is possible for a stock S2000? Seems to me that variations in weather, track surface and variations of output from car to car would make 4.9 possible if MT's times were accurate. I guess all this is to say that I don't think V was "stooping" or making an outrageous claim or unsunstantiated claim.

BTW V, if the wheel guy will not take the scratched wheels back, I'd take him to small claims court. Seems to me that if he delivered the wrong wheels he both performed and breached the contract. Once you told him about the problem and your concern about the wheels being damaged while in your care, he assumed the risk of injury to the wheels by taking his time to take the wheels back.

Happy New Year All!

2x6spds

viscreal2000

NSXER,

I appreciate your comments, and offer this explanation. Although I don't think anything I said was unsubstantiated, (unless we are assuming R&T are liars) I can understand your concern. I just want you to know I'm not much of a rumor person, and stand by what I say. By the way happy new year,I just realized it's the 1st! As for your statements.

After our little race the civic owner (jay) and several others had pulled into park for a talk. I found him to be knowledgable, very skilled, and not a "bragger" at all. He even invited me to take his car for a run (which I will do along with mine for some real hard data) at sears point as he is a club racer and regular. (Come on bay area guys!)That does'nt prove he's running low 13's but I have no doubt it's true. Call it a leap of faith.
Maybe "pulling away" was actually a car length or so but I was happy! And a little exxageration....well (:! But I never said I "ran away from him" I will try to word things more carefully however.
I have never been one for "wild rumors" either, and although the R&T time is VERY good, I believe it to be true.
Way back in 91 I had an mr2 turbo, and there were several times published for 0-60. My car could'nt break 7 seconds while several others were doing it under six. My point is magazine #s although great as a GENERAL guideline can't substantiate the truth for every car made (i.e. mustang cobra)
and some will be faster and others slower. IMHO this car CAN do 4.9 sec as it has'nt passed the theoretical limit for hp/gearing etc.
NSXER, I don't feel that anything I said was in fact "lowering" myself in any way. I never lie, and I know what the truth is (well I hope!). Either way, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. In your argument you use heresay for fact (acura tech), and indeed alot of your argument is based on that although.. unsubstantiated. I would not be one to accuse you of lowering yourself. Anyway, I can't believe I typed this out oover half of a second!! Take care.

regards,

marcus

Scot

I am pretty sure the 4.9 to Sixty is a Typo in Road & Track. They blunder lots of information in almost every issue.

If both the S2000 and the NSX accelerated at the same speed, why did the NSX beat the S2000 around the track by 2-3 seconds? The NSX weighs more too.

Scot

ps... Motor Trend must have a downhill dragstrip because 98% of the time, they have the fastest times posted for any car.?

Sev

Listen guys, enough of this crap.

The Car CAN run 4.9s 0-60 if everything is PERFECT.

I ran 5.11 and many 5.1s easily in the summer and my car wasn't even fully broken in yet.

The thing i doubt though is a piece of crap magazine like R&D being able to do it. They always run really slow times with all cars, especially ones that aren't easy to lauch. ie. all vtecs.

To say that a 4.99 is imposiblle when i am telling you i can rip a 5.1 anytime and am sure others can too ...

The fact is though that 0-60 times mean crapola in the world of drag racing. A 4.99 0-60 would correspond to about a 13.6-13.7 can be done although not very easilly.