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Timing chain dilemma

 
Old 07-17-2018, 06:51 AM
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Default Timing chain dilemma

Hey guys,

So I tried my best to read all the other posts surrounding this topic first before I decided to post because I did not want to be annoying but I am not quite sure what to do at the moment. Long story short I recently purchased an 05 with 122k miles. It drove fine for the first few hundred miles/3weeks until I started hearing what I believed to be the tct noise (this was after reading the forums and comparing sound on YouTube). Initially the rattling noise was not that bad/noticeable, it was only more noticeable after a 15/20 min drive. I decided to replace the tct with the ballade sport one because EngineeringExplained (a reputable youtube channel) had recommended it and showed to replace it. Anyway, I decided to attempt to replace it myself and I followed all the instructions. I had made sure that when putting the tct in that there was not a lot of resistance ( this part confused me because it seemed that as long as you did not have to use the bolts to pull the tct in, it was not over tightening the timing chain). I used three fingers and I would say about 9lbs of force to get the Ballade sport tct to pop in and lay flush with the engine (I figured that the "popping in" was due to the last o-ring). I was slightly skeptical and so I pulled it out and pushed it in using roughly the same amount of force to reinsert it. There was no gap as far as I could tell between the tct and the block and the tct was able to sit flush without me having to push on it or secure it with bolts. Then i followed the rest of the instructions. (Keep in mind that I did not have a torque wrench and I was kinda estimating how much to tighten down the bolts. I know that this was stupid but I did not tighten the bolts that tight as 9 lb force is not a lot) When I went to start the car up, the tct noise was gone (i think) but there was this squeaking noise that seemed to be coming from the idler pulley bearing. I took a video recording of this but disregarded it as nothing to worry about at the time. Anyway, I drove the car for about say 15/20 mins or so before stopping at a parking lot and waiting 10 mins with the engine off to listen for the tct rattling noise on startup (there was non) and then proceeded to drive home (about another 10mins). When I had gotten home, I decided to put the car in neutral and slowly bring up the RPMs and that is when I noticed the supercharger like whining noise. I think i noticed some sort of whining noise reflecting off the wall while test driving after putting in the ballade sport tct but disregarded it at the time. I eventually looked this up on the forums and read all about how the ballade sport tct can over tighten the timing chain. I immediately removed it and put back the original tct. This went in noticeably easier like using one finger and very little pressure easier. I turned on the car and the whining noise was gone ( there was a little bit of whining noise but just barely audible but i believe that that is normal?) After listening to it run with the original tct back in, I decided to removed the original tct and put the ballade sport tct to test for noise again to compare and see if I was just hearing things. This time around, I could not get the Ballade sport tct ot fit in at all. I double checked that I had the piston retracted all the way and used the wingnut and bolt to hold it but this time it left like a 2-4mm gap. I did not try to force the tct in but I did try to firmly press it in like first time I had installed it but it did not budge. I hand cranked the engine very very slowly and at very small increments at a time like (5 degrees) as instructed in the youtube video but I was still unable to fit the ballade sport tct back in. Instead I gave up and decided to put the original one back in and leave it for now. The tct noise as of right now is pretty minimal and isn't that loud except for occasional warm starts after a drive. I have not been driving the vehicle for fear of damaging the timing chain guides and ruining the car. To my understanding, the ballade sport tct is designed with a longer piston distance and stronger springs however, this only works if the timing chain has stretched out a substantial amount (please correct me if I am wrong but I compared the compressed lengths and the Ballade sport one is a bit longer). I am really unsure of what to do now. I also am not as mechanically inclined or as knowledgeable about engine work as many of you guys are so please go easy on me. Working on the tct felt like open heart surgery already and I am really scared of blowing up the block or doing something wrong. I am currently in the process of Pm’ing Billman for his new TCT so hopefully I can get my hands on that but what do you guys suggest I do? Additionally I have video recordings of most everything but I cannot seem to figure out how to upload onto here at the moment. Once I figure out how to I will submit videos of everything I recorded. Thank you to anybody that actually took the time to read this all, I apologize for being super wordy.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:16 PM
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Breaking this up to some paragraphs would help readability. You didn't read all the TCT posts or neither you (nor Jason) would have purchased the Ballade version which sometimes (often?) applies excessive spring pressure to the timing chain. You're on the right path with Billman.

-- Chuck
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:15 PM
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Thanks for replying Chuck. I will try to be more concise next time. I have contacted Billman and just placed my order today for his new TCT. I also contacted Ballade so far they have agreed to let me return the tensioner. I suppose all there is to do now is wait.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:55 PM
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I read your whole post. I suggest just not starting it until you get the Billman tct. Install it, and hope for the best. Likely you didn't cause significant damage in the few miles and minutes you used the Ballade tct.

Once the Billman tct is in place, so long as no unusual noises you're good.

Imagine a chain under excessive tension. Like a motorcycle chain adjusted too tight. Dramatically increased wear rate will occur. Each pin will have excessive pressure. But its not gonna completely wear out in less than an hour of running.

The chain usually lasts the life of the engine, which so long as nothing bad happens, like running low on oil, is proving to be in excess of 300k miles. So I don't think your chain is doomed from your short stint of running too tight.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:30 PM
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Billmans TCT is the only TCT any s2k owner should buy.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:09 PM
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Agree with everyone. I've had the Billman TCT on my car, since 2016. Absolutely no problems.

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Old 07-19-2018, 11:26 PM
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Hope you're lucky. Here's my experience with the ballade tct. Tbh there were parts that I didn't need to replace but I did because I was already there with the timing cover off.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...ement-1177074/
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:19 PM
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Hey guys, thank you all for the replies. I apologize for not being active recently. I just received Billman's tct today and installed it. I started up the car and within the first few minutes I could hear this slight rattling sound coming from the tct area. I have not driven the car just yet for fear of damaging the car but I already messaged Billman about my concerns. I noticed that when I was removing the old tct, it came out without me having to force it out. When I was unbolting the 10mm bolts, the tct just popped out as I unscrewed it. Does this mean that my old tct was fine or does this mean that it was installed incorrectly and that there was too much tension on the chain? Either way, I did not crank the engine, I just installed Billman's tct tct and it popped in but took some force. It sat flush without me needing to hold it in place so idk. I really appreciate the feedback, anyway I look forward to your replies.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:25 PM
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Hey guys, so I took a video of the initial startup. I believe I read somewhere that it takes a while for oil to fill up inside the tct and for it to start working properly that this usually happens within the first minute or so. Anyway the video is broken up into three clips but they all were within the first 3-4 mins of turning on the car after installing the tct.



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Old 07-21-2018, 01:31 PM
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Oh and one more thing, there is this nasty grind on startup which I believe to be my starter going out. Correct me if I am wrong please. Thanks
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