jyeung528

road rage,

do you still recommend amsoil as ur motor oil of choice, or le's motor oil?

Jeff

Road Rage

There are plenty of fine lubes out there.

In synoils/synblends I like and which show consistently high quality and low wear rates:

Amsoil 10w30, Series 2000 0w30 (cold climates), Series 3000 5w30 (this is a diesel and spark oil with their highest additive chemistry - maybe for FI cars)

Delvac 1 5w40 (year round esp. hot climates)

LE 8130 10w30

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In mineral-based oil:

Pennzoil, Castrol, Motorcraft, Chevron Supreme

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Where power is the goal:
Consider Motorcraft 5w20 synblend from Ford. This is made by Conoco, and it is some kind of oil, as it has shown excellent performance in terms of wear even though it is very thin.
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The future:
We are on the verge of a whole new gen of oils, with thinner base stocks, yet longer drain intervals. Maybe Conoco will be the first. The drivers will be economy, emissions, and the waste oil problem. America's obsession with 3K oil change intervals will begin to change - it needs to.

RED MX5

Back in the old days we changed our single weight oils at intervals of between 1500 and 3000 miles. Eventually (I'm slow to change) we started using multi-weight oils and extended our change interval to 6000 miles. Different cars, different oils, and too many variables to be sure, but it certainly seems that our engines now accumulate a lot more "varnish." They just don't LOOK as clean on the inside as they did when we changed the oil more frequently. Is the "varnish" just ugly but harmless? It's always concerned me a little, but as far as I know hasn't ever done any harm. We at 185,000 miles on our old 626 and in spite of the varnish, there have been zero problems with any lubricated parts.

Anyway, what's up with the way the longer change intervals and the way our engines use to look so much cleaner on the inside?

Thanks,

RED

dlq04

Put me down as an 'ole timer that plans to stay with 3,000 mile oil changes. I've always looked at it as cheap engine insurance. 6 qts of Mobil 1 plus a filter comes in about $30 for a do-it-yourself person. If I were to drive the S2k 200,000 miles that works out to 67 oil changes vs. 27 if I went by the 7,500 plan. The 40 difference amounts to $1,200 but that's not much when you spread it over 33 years (assumes 6,000 miles/year). I'll be 96 years old and probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of the S2000 and my grandson can start doing the oil changes.

Road Rage

Red MX5 - apparent "varnish" is usually more cosmetic than harmful, unless the rings are also varnished. Fact is PAO's when they break down can leave even worse deposits on rings, but leave the rest of the engine look like a Mobil1 advertizement.

dlq: Mineral oils of high quality may break down in our cars, but I have not seen where 3K is the magic number. I think it is closer to 5-6K.

In my "forecast" of tomorrow, I was not referring to a relatively small band of hardcore nutz like us - I tend to think at a broader level, which is the zillions of Accords, Camrys, and trucks sold each year. The S2000 and enthusiast market is a tiny nit in comparison to that vast horde - what we do or prefer to do as cheap insurance has little impact on the areas I mentioned, but I maintain the 3K love affair can and should give way to technological advance and the science of tribology.

When we can demonstrate that a -5w10 oil (yes, a minus number is theoretically quite possible) will produce +7 HP, more mileage, and protect your engine safely from wear for 10K miles, will you at least consider a 5K interval? That's at least a start, amigo.

RED MX5

Given that we never had any trouble with the 626, I'd pretty much concluded that the varnish was harmless, but I hate the way it looks. It use to be nice to pull the rocker or cam cover and see parts that looked almost like new, perhaps even a point of pride, and I miss that. I don't think I had the "problem" until I switched to multi-weight and extended the change interval, but since I changed two things at once (I know that's dumb), I have no way of knowing if the varnish is the result of the extended interval or the result of using different oil. Let me be clear, I'm talking about the junk on the rockers and stuff, not gummy piston rings. What causes it? Would more frequency changes reduce or eliminate the buildup, or is it a function of the oil itself. I realize it's harmless, but I just don't like the way it looks.

Thanks,

RED

Road Rage

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
RR, very interesting.

RS2000

I have recently found this article, which adds a few other criteria for comparison between LE 607 and multi-grade oil. I don't remember seeing this before and this didn't show up in search either so I assume it hasn't been posted:

http://www.technilube.com/sections/comps/S2K_vs_LE.htm

I am not an expert in lubs so I would need some help interpreting this article. What I am understanding is that there are 7 criteria to compare gear oil (including flashpoint, pour point, four ball wear test, noack volatility, etc.) and that these characteristics do change with temperature. In order to have a apple to apple comparison, comparison should be performed at different temperature to fully understand the performance and suitability of gear oils for a particular application, in our case, the Torsen Diff of the S2000 (high speed application, as oppose to something like the diff. of a tractor)

The other point that was mentioned this article is that at high temperature, it is the EP additives that protects the gear, not the petroleum oil.

Moreover, the article also mentioned that industrial lubricants (which is LE 607 is categorized under), are targeted to meet lubrication requirements of "industrial" use and are not expected to meet the range of temperature automotive lubes have to meet - Tests are usually measured at 40C (104F) v.s. a range of temperature in automotives.

To me, this spells out clearly that many criteria should be considered while evaluating the performance and suitability of gear oil for use in the S2000. I don't understand many of the criteria mentioned in the article (some of which I haven't even heard of) and operating temperature of the Torsen differential so I could not draw any conclusion on how well LE 607 works for the S2000. One thing I know though - I need to replace my differential oil pretty darn soon.

Would be great if the experts in this forum can provide additional insights on this.

topcat7111

Good point Rs2000...

genghiskwong

please clarify this for me...... with the 607 are we still talking about regular/severe diff changes per honda's schedule?

the owner's link page says to change the diff oil once a year or every 15000 miles..... (which is just fine for me )

thanks again for all the analysis and work...