Vtec.net R&D project on the F20c engine link inside
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From: Burbank, CA
Vtec.net R&D project on the F20c engine link inside
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Originally posted by S2kRob
Yeah, and all those people who said the F20C is maxed from the factory will be eating crow.
Yeah, and all those people who said the F20C is maxed from the factory will be eating crow.
The more you increase the ramp angle of the cams the faster you are accelerating the valves and at 9000 rpms this gets tricky especially with the springs. More serious possibly is with increased duration you decrease the amount of time the valve has time to shed it's heat to the valve seat.
So I am sure some power is there to be found but Honda did one hell of a job on this production head. The guy says it is one of the best production heads he has seen.
You must admit that it is harder than you thought and Honda did a better job than you imagined and that was my point. Honda did not leave MUCH on the table. What they left was IMHO for the sake of reliability.
Honda has to be able to waranty it to 100,000 miles. You guys can (and probably will) sacrifice a good portion of this reliability to make some gains.
You pay your money,...you take your choice.
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Performance increases can be had in almost any motor if longegevity and reliability are not considerations. Even Formula 1 motors have lightened, higher revving version used just for qualifying. But these qualifying motors are only designed to last a dozen laps.
Few people have said Honda left "nothing" on the table when they designed the F20C. Only that they made a superior motor which is less of a compromise than most motors.
Still, this is a fascinating project and I'm sure it will garner a lot of interest. I might even be a customer after the reliability is proven and some people have run the mods for a few thousand miles
Few people have said Honda left "nothing" on the table when they designed the F20C. Only that they made a superior motor which is less of a compromise than most motors.
Still, this is a fascinating project and I'm sure it will garner a lot of interest. I might even be a customer after the reliability is proven and some people have run the mods for a few thousand miles
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From: Elk Grove
Bieg,
I usually agree with most of what you say regarding mods. I think Honda did a terrific job from the factory, and I personally am sitting on the fence regarding modding mine because I love it so much as is. I don't think these mods will reduce the reliability/longevity of the motor. There are plenty of B-series motors out there running cams and spinning to 9,000 rpms and beyond, and their reliability has been proven. The F20c is a much more stout motor than any B-series out there, so I don't believe cams would sacrifice reliability much if at all.
I usually agree with most of what you say regarding mods. I think Honda did a terrific job from the factory, and I personally am sitting on the fence regarding modding mine because I love it so much as is. I don't think these mods will reduce the reliability/longevity of the motor. There are plenty of B-series motors out there running cams and spinning to 9,000 rpms and beyond, and their reliability has been proven. The F20c is a much more stout motor than any B-series out there, so I don't believe cams would sacrifice reliability much if at all.
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Great article! UL I'm looking forward to your future installments and thanks for the plug
Honda's engineers did a fantastic job on this engine. We all know that, I knew it when I bought it (it has a lot to do with why I bought it). It's one of the finest production engines ever built by them or others. But I see no harm in peering inside and reverse engineering some of it. In fact, no matter where you turn we find the same limits the engineers did and we can be facinated at how close they got considering, as Bieg says, it's got to be warranteed for up to 100,000 miles.
However, if were not for such efforts as this we would not know. It's the efforts of the aftermarket R&D that provides this data, Honda sure as hell doesn't. While I hate to bring it up here, the Stock vs. Mod argument is IMO moot. We all have different expectations about what we want from the car we bought. Yes the factory engineers did a fantastic job at satisfying the norm but it is just that. To some, higher performance and low longevity is a desirable tradeoff. If the ultimate goal is to get the absolute longest life from the car then I agree, turn away and follow your owners manual.
I like many others cracked the spine of my service manual long before peeling the plastic off the owners manual. I say that if I can change cams, gain some HP and get away with it I'll do it. But then I'm a weekend track junky and that how I use my car to my greatest enjoyment. I'm at the point where if I could afford it I'd put in a cage and drop on a hardtop and go racing. I don't plan to show it at the concours de elegance. To me this stuff is interesting and relevent to others, perhaps not.
Honda's engineers did a fantastic job on this engine. We all know that, I knew it when I bought it (it has a lot to do with why I bought it). It's one of the finest production engines ever built by them or others. But I see no harm in peering inside and reverse engineering some of it. In fact, no matter where you turn we find the same limits the engineers did and we can be facinated at how close they got considering, as Bieg says, it's got to be warranteed for up to 100,000 miles.
However, if were not for such efforts as this we would not know. It's the efforts of the aftermarket R&D that provides this data, Honda sure as hell doesn't. While I hate to bring it up here, the Stock vs. Mod argument is IMO moot. We all have different expectations about what we want from the car we bought. Yes the factory engineers did a fantastic job at satisfying the norm but it is just that. To some, higher performance and low longevity is a desirable tradeoff. If the ultimate goal is to get the absolute longest life from the car then I agree, turn away and follow your owners manual.
I like many others cracked the spine of my service manual long before peeling the plastic off the owners manual. I say that if I can change cams, gain some HP and get away with it I'll do it. But then I'm a weekend track junky and that how I use my car to my greatest enjoyment. I'm at the point where if I could afford it I'd put in a cage and drop on a hardtop and go racing. I don't plan to show it at the concours de elegance. To me this stuff is interesting and relevent to others, perhaps not.