So does this mean the F20c is going to be have poor longevity and reliability since it is has obviously achieve such high performance???

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]


You must admit that it is harder than you thought and Honda did a better job than you imagined and that was my point.

 

I just have to reiterate a point that was brought up in the article. The F20C is probably "tapped out" as far as tuning goes today. But, just like previous Honda engines, they will be a dime a dozen in a few years. So, you will more than likely be able to get one with all kinds of upgrades for half of what a stock engine costs today. With that in mind, I say keep on poking around in there.

 

Actually, my feeling is that the stock F20c is built with a lot of longevity in mind. The evidence is that there are quite a few F20c's out there with a lot of hard miles on them. Thus far there haven't been an abnormal numbers of malfunctions, especially for a motor of it's output.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mikey
[B]

Actually, my feeling is that the stock F20c is built with a lot of

 

Like I said, you pay your money you get to take your choice.

I am sure everyone has a threshold where the possible gain in HP is worth sacrificing some longevity and more importantly (for me anyway) the warranty.

What would it have to be? 25hp? 50hp? 75hp? Hell if you told me I could get 100 reliable hp with headwork, cams and headers I would do it myself. I would NOT give up the warranty for 25hp though and this is where everyone draws their own line.

I bet there is much less to gain and certainly more to lose with messing with the F20c engine.

That being said this is a very interesting project and I am glad you guys were interested enough to invest in the research.

 

Let the race for more (reliable) N/A power begin!
Thank you, UL, for working on this project!

 

Could be, only time and testing will tell

 

To UL and the "very dedicated group of enthusiasts at S2Ki.com", THANKS. I wanted in... but you guys filled the slots so fast.

Most impressive work, very well thought out. Can't wait for the next installment.

This may very well be the key to unlocking the F20C. HamS2000 posted that his power gains are leveling off at 8K with the AEM PEMS. Personally, I think that the quest for a higher redline is a much more worthwhile effort than more horsepower per se, although higher HP comes with higher redlines. An additional 10+ mph for each gear... keeping it in VTEC... The S is a force to be reckoned with on certain racetracks, like VIR and Lime Rock. A broader powerband will be very useful. A fatter midrange would also be very welcome. However, with this approach you can be conservative with mixtures and CRs. Just my 2 cents.

Looks like I may keep the S a little longer.

 

I'm looking forward to more info...

I'm curious though... I might have missed something, but the *need* for more flow hasn't been addressed. Will a fatter cam provide much more gain? Increased flow only helps if you need it... the indication that a higher lift cam migh net increased flow is great- if you can do something with that air. This assumes that the stock design is lacking in some sense. If you increase flow rate beyond what's needed, velocity may suffer and performance may not increase (or worst case, decrease). Joe I'm sure is aware of all this, though, so I'm interested in hearing what his/Shawn's take is on all of this.

Does anyone know if the JDM motor has different lift on the cams? I would think with higher CR pistons higher flow would be desireable. If there is only one set of cams... we should already flow more air than we need in comparison to the JDM motor. This doesn't really tell us what we "need," though.

A special thanks to UL, hope you are still willing to show your face now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.

Oh, and BTW- what's the verdict on the CC shape and bowl blending? From what I've seen with the manifold off, it looks pretty well done. Just curious if anyone thinks there's anything to be gained here. Another builder I've spoken with who's worked on the F20 thinks there's less than 5HP to be had in this head with stock cams (just in shaping).