Is this the end of the huge SUV?
10-05-2005, 08:18 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 1,871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Legal Bill,Oct 5 2005, 07:02 PM] Yes, we in the Northeast complain about this because we see them used as daily commuters when a simple Civic, or public transportation would do just as well or even better.
10-05-2005, 09:00 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 1,871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by matt_inva,Oct 5 2005, 05:10 PM
What a concept! Why not have the agility to avoid an accident? After we purchased our S2000 in April of 2003, I called our Allstate agent because I did not understand how the insurance for our then ten year old Ford Exploder could be 80% of the cost of our brand new 2003 S2000 that cost one third more new then the Explorder when it was new but was now worth only about $8,000.
He went on to explain that it is based on a formula that takes the safety rating into consideration (The S has a five star safety rating) and the vehicles ability to do damage based on it's weight, (lack of ) handling and it's generation one ABS (in the case of the Exploder)
I think that the BMW TV add of a few years ago about the cars ability to avoid accidents was great. On the other hand a 2000 VDOT study showed that Volvo's (with their reputation for being safe cars) where involved in a dispropotionate percentage of fatal accidents in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I do not remember that exact percentages, but it was something like: They make up less than 1% of the registered vehicles but are involved in close to 10% of the fatal accidents :-(
I contend that the average driver (and even the average S driver) is not well versed in active safety. Unless you have been to a Skip Barber, or Bondurant type school, or race, you don't learn the active maneuvers necessary to avoid an accident.
Most people simply jam on the brakes while holding the steering wheel straight hoping that they stop before the run into someone or something.
It's one thing for the car to have the ability to avoid an accident, it's another for the driver to have the skills and rapid thinking necessary to utilize the car's ability.
SUV's are pretty good at the passive safety aspect - especially modern ones with side impact air bags as well as front air bags.
They are not so good at the active safety aspect, but a skilled driver can make the most of the reduced braking/handling
10-06-2005, 03:48 AM
#43
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Apex NC
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by silvershadow,Oct 6 2005, 12:00 AM
They are not so good at the active safety aspect, but a skilled driver can make the most of the reduced braking/handling
10-06-2005, 04:14 AM
#44
Originally Posted by cordycord,Oct 5 2005, 11:53 PM
Bill, that's just about the wrongest thing I've seen you write. SUV's will go the way of parachute pants. Or not. Big deal. Don't think "market", think people who vote with their paychecks.
I saw a beautiful Triumph TR2 on the way home tonight--at least I think it was beautiful--it was dark. Anyway, it was absolutely dwarfed by some econobox Echo (who makes that?) driving next to it. I'm sure at the time of its manufacture it was dwarfed by a DeSoto. Or a Delahaye. Or a Clydesdale. Get my drift?
Who gives a rat's hiney if everyone decides to stop buying SUV's when gas hits $10 a gallon due to diminishing supplies? I don't give a care about the market for SUVs. I care about the fuel market. Once the fuel is gone, it is gone. As the reserves dwindle, the cost increases. The fact that SUV's will then be shunned is irrelevant. You can stack 'em up beside all the Desotos (whatever they have to do with anything) You can't go and get the gas back. The "market" sells whatever it has to sell and as it runs out it increases the price and when it is gone the market says "oh sh!t, guess I need to find something else to sell." So instead of petrolium products you will be burning some synthetic crap derived from corn and you will be paying $5 a gallon for it and it won't work in your car, but only in some grease mobile that smell like french fries.
Why did I buy a BMW instead of a Civic? Simple, I'm just like the rest of you. I can't help myself. I'm just more awake than the rest of you and I can see the cliff coming. The only difference is I admit my folly. I resisted the urge to get the CTS-V with 400 hp, traded my 3800 pound 18mpg Jaguar for a 3400 pound 24 mpg BMW and feel slightly less guilty that I didn't buy the 30 mpg RSX-S.
Now I have to go tell shadow why he should ride his horses instead of giving them a ride.
10-06-2005, 04:27 AM
#45
[QUOTE=silvershadow,Oct 6 2005, 12:18 AM] Lemme see - first off - fuel oil and gasoline come from the same crude oil so why don't you live in an area of the country that doesn't use so much fuel oil 
Second, Bill I am indeed impressed, I didn't realize that you owned oil reserves and a refinery.
Second, Bill I am indeed impressed, I didn't realize that you owned oil reserves and a refinery.
10-06-2005, 04:38 AM
#46
All I know is I have a couple investments in eastern european and indian energy funds. They have more than offset the increase in fuel here. I expect that will continue.
I don't think we've come close to finding all the petroleum reserves in the world. There's an entire continent out there that hasn't been tapped. Theres lots of unexplored ocean too.
I just hope that people can buy what they want and that companies are allowed to build them.
I believe in competition. OK world compete.
BILL
fltsfshr
I don't think we've come close to finding all the petroleum reserves in the world. There's an entire continent out there that hasn't been tapped. Theres lots of unexplored ocean too.
I just hope that people can buy what they want and that companies are allowed to build them.
I believe in competition. OK world compete.
BILL
fltsfshr
10-06-2005, 04:52 AM
#47
Originally Posted by fltsfshr,Oct 6 2005, 08:38 AM
I don't think we've come close to finding all the petroleum reserves in the world. There's an entire continent out there that hasn't been tapped. Theres lots of unexplored ocean too.
Think of crude oil like whales. They were a great source of oil for lamps and lubricants. At one time, whales were the petrolium market. And then we ran out of whales. Oh sure, there are a few around, but they ain't coming back in numbers like we once had them just three or four generations ago. And unlike whales, oil fields don't reproduce.
10-06-2005, 09:28 AM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legal Bill
Hey Bill,
Maybe we should have "whale farms", just like shrimp farms...
Problem solved!!! Now go stomp down on that gas pedal of yours!!!
Think of crude oil like whales.
Maybe we should have "whale farms", just like shrimp farms...
Problem solved!!! Now go stomp down on that gas pedal of yours!!!
10-06-2005, 09:43 AM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by i_heart_my_DB8,Oct 6 2005, 09:29 AM
Not at all, wear it with pride 
I will agree that the passive safety issue with SUV's is much greater than cars, that part is obvious. But at what cost?
I suppose my main gripe is less with SUV's, and more with the general population of drivers out there. The reason SUV's have become a personal target of mine, is because anything offensive done on the road is EXACERBATED in an SUV. Think about it ALL the things that someone can do to get under your skin on the road: Tailgating, speeding, weaving, driving slow in the wrong lane, cutting you off. All these things are worsened to an N'th degree by the sheer size of an SUV- a size that is 90% of the time unnecessary.
[climbing on soapbox]
Whatever happened to the times when driving required ACTIVE PARTICIPATION?? It seems like a vast majority of drivers out on MY roads right now view driving as a background activity. This is why I try to convince everyone I know to drive a manual transmission. Or a car that handles well and is nimble. These things FORCE driver interaction, something sorely missing in drivers today.
Do you realize that we have a new generation of drivers spilling out onto MY roads today who started driving at 16 in their parent's old SUV, and will buy an SUV of their own at 23, and will NEVER know what it feels like to be involved in the driving process???
. They will never experience a confidence inspiring turn without body roll. They will never feel the instant response of being in the right gear at the right time. They will never see the viewpoint from a car, and know how they block the sightlines fore and aft. The prospect of sharing the road with this generation is disgusting to me.
Everyone should learn to drive in a Miata, or ride a motorcycle before jumping into a larger car/truck/SUV. You tend to pay a little more attention and become a little more aware of your surroundings and the motorists around you when your life depends on it. The "comfort" and "safety" aspect of SUV's only contributes to the apathy of drivers on the road.
I will agree that the passive safety issue with SUV's is much greater than cars, that part is obvious. But at what cost?
I suppose my main gripe is less with SUV's, and more with the general population of drivers out there. The reason SUV's have become a personal target of mine, is because anything offensive done on the road is EXACERBATED in an SUV. Think about it ALL the things that someone can do to get under your skin on the road: Tailgating, speeding, weaving, driving slow in the wrong lane, cutting you off. All these things are worsened to an N'th degree by the sheer size of an SUV- a size that is 90% of the time unnecessary.
[climbing on soapbox]
Whatever happened to the times when driving required ACTIVE PARTICIPATION?? It seems like a vast majority of drivers out on MY roads right now view driving as a background activity. This is why I try to convince everyone I know to drive a manual transmission. Or a car that handles well and is nimble. These things FORCE driver interaction, something sorely missing in drivers today.
Do you realize that we have a new generation of drivers spilling out onto MY roads today who started driving at 16 in their parent's old SUV, and will buy an SUV of their own at 23, and will NEVER know what it feels like to be involved in the driving process???
. They will never experience a confidence inspiring turn without body roll. They will never feel the instant response of being in the right gear at the right time. They will never see the viewpoint from a car, and know how they block the sightlines fore and aft. The prospect of sharing the road with this generation is disgusting to me.Everyone should learn to drive in a Miata, or ride a motorcycle before jumping into a larger car/truck/SUV. You tend to pay a little more attention and become a little more aware of your surroundings and the motorists around you when your life depends on it. The "comfort" and "safety" aspect of SUV's only contributes to the apathy of drivers on the road.