I don't much associate ethics and morality. Morality is more time honored and invariably linked to religion/religious teachings. To me, ethics are a broad set of standards more related to business and practices. As such, ethics may change, become refined, or be redefined over time.

 

So morality doesn't change over time?

What about those of us that aren't religious (athiest)? Does that mean we're scum-suckers with no moral values since we have no religion to base our morality upon?

 

Was that a response to my post, Mike? (About ethics having been replaced by good intentions.)

 

Ethics shift to meet the needs of each society in its time and place.

Ethics and morals obviously change over time. We have seen it in our lifetime. Just one example: European/American society has gone from accepting flogging and worse as forms of corporal punishment to limiting corporal punishment to children to a near total ban on physical abuse of any kind.

Rules of ethical behavior differ dramatically from society to society. Look at the differences in the moral codes of devout Catholics, Baptists, Jews, and Muslims. Globalization has diluted these differences over the past 100 years to some extent but there are still stark contrasts.

Thus it could be argued that moral codes develop to meet the needs of each society in its time and place. Of course those codes are also seasoned with the precepts of individuals in positions of power who set down certain 'moral' principals for personal gain or out of baseless convictions.

 

I don't think so, both reached the same conclusion via two different methods.

Aren't morals a socially enforced value, and ethics a personal decision based way of living your life?

That definition probably needs expanding.


fltsfshr

 

Morality doesn't change over time?

Why was slavery so acceptible to so many people in the past, but not now? Why was dogfighting a perfectly unobjectionable sport in the past, but is now considered to be immoral? Attitudes change about a lot of things: child labor, arranged marriages of 12-yr-old girls, capital punishment for petty theft, whaling, etc.

Moral principles also vary from culture to culture, as there are still places in the world where all those things are considered moral today, even though they are not in our society.

Nor is morality a matter of religion, per se. It is a mixture of individual sensibility and cultural norms. If the cultural norms include a religion, then that religion does influence the morality in that time and place. But morality is ultimately a matter that happens within people's heads, not a set of rules imposed from the outside.

We feel certain things are right and other things are wrong. These feelings are influenced by the world around us -- our religions, our cultures, what other people we respect consider to be moral, what we are taught by our parents, what we experience over our lives. But they are our feelings.

Remember how, at the start of his adventure, Huck Finn worries that he is being immoral by helping Jim escape slavery? But by the end of the book, his morality has shifted and he no longer thinks it is moral for Jim to be held in servitude.

If there is any unchanging morality, it is probably an instinctive feeling we have that we should stand up for our friends and family. The history of moral change tends to reflect people extending that further and further, from immediate family to tribal members to other people who share the same language or skin color to all people to charismatic animals to ... what next?

There are people who argue that apes should be treated with full human rights, or that worms should be treated as lovingly as dogs and cats. Those positions seem extreme to most of us (myself included), but 150 years ago treating people of different races as if they were fully human was an extreme moral position for many people.

 

Hey! You aren't supposed to tell anyone who doesn't know the secret atheist handshake.

Now taking bets on how long before this thread gets moved to the politics forum.

 

Please consider the meaning of "I don't" and To me". We are allowed to have personal opinions here. I do agree that morality has changed over time; primarily to less of it. I also think that basic principles of morality are time-honored. I also think that slavery and indentured servitude are historical failures of morality, largely driven by cultural influences, differences, and condescending attitudes. However, find me one credible source who does not think that basic principles of morality did not evolve with the rise of religion? You and I don't have to like it, but Is that not accepted as fact?

 

[QUOTE=RC - Ryder,Jul 15 2009, 08:32 AM] However, find me one credible source who does not think that basic principles of morality did not evolve with the rise of religion?

 

Mike: Within the realm of atheism, is morality more of a shouldn't be related to religion than an isn't related to religion issue? Just interested.