cordycord

Appreciated.

vroom

Good stuff, thanks.

johnnydev

Hmmm...maybe that's what Bush meant when he referred to cutting "programs that don't work."

Ulrich

No worries, the administration will always find creative ways to keep the money close to home... From CNN: Bush seeks $950 million in tsunami aid

The total also includes $346 million to cover money already spent by the USAID and the Defense Department, the White House said, and an unspecified sum may also be used to cover debt deferment for tsunami-affected countries.

So I guess that means that they found a way to funnel a few million dollars more to the military budget without anybody noticing?

[/OFF TOPIC]

Lainey

I can't say I'm well informed on the farm bill, and I know some folks truly struggle to hang on to the family farm, with developers hounding them at every opportunity.

This buy out/subsidy program is closer to home.

The government is/was concerned that commercial fishing boats were "overfishing" in our area. To make a long story short, the government bought out some of the fishing boats. It was a strange offering, in some cases I think the actual license of the boat was all the government wanted, not the actual boat or the equipment, though the boat could no longer fish. These boat owners, many who were having financial difficulty due to the lack of fish, were being bailed out by the governent. The stock of fish/scallops in the ocean seems to be cyclical. In hindsight, some of these guys who were bought out probably now wished they hung on, as certain areas of commercial fishing has improved recently.

The business I work for makes large equipment (winches) for these fishing boats. When the business slowed down, due to the government's attempt to limit the number of boats fishing, they did nothing for our business, nor any other waterfront business which relied heavily on the fishing industry to stay in business.

Guess we will never understand how they decide who to help with the various programs.

valentine

Where does the article say that, Ulrich? It says this added $600 mil in aid is in addition to what has been spent and covering the previous expenditures:

I'm pasting it here:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush said Wednesday he will ask Congress for an additional $600 million to aid victims of the December 26 tsunami that ravaged parts of southern Asia.

That aid would be in addition to the $350 million the United States already has pledged, according to a written statement from the White House.

A 9.0 magnitude earthquake in the Indian Ocean triggered the massive waves, which struck a dozen nations. The disaster killed more than 160,000 people, with Indonesia hit hardest.

"I will seek $950 million as part of the supplemental appropriations request to support the areas recovering from the tsunami and to cover the costs of relief efforts to date," Bush said.

"We will use these resources to provide assistance and to work with the affected nations on rebuilding vital infrastructure that re-energizes economies and strengthens societies."

Bush pledged $350 million on December 31 after facing criticism for first offering $15 million and then raising that to $35 million two days after the disaster.

Andrew Natsios, the administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, told reporters Wednesday that the $950 million humanitarian pledge would represent "the most generous and the most extensive in American history for the U.S. government."

Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz said at the press briefing that some 16,000 U.S. military personnel in the region have delivered more than 10 million pounds of food and provided more than 400,000 gallons of fresh water. He also stressed the diplomatic importance of the relief mission for the United States.

"Above and beyond the humanitarian considerations -- which would be compelling enough -- we have an enormous interest in seeing this succeed," Wolfowitz said, noting Indonesia's status as both an "emerging democracy" and the world's most populous Muslim country.

The White House said the $950 million will include $339 million for reconstruction of infrastructure; $168 million to help victims transition back to their communities; $35 million for early-warning and disaster-mitigation efforts; and $62 million to help plan reconstruction activities and cover the costs of U.S. agencies in the region.

The total also includes $346 million to cover money already spent by the USAID and the Defense Department, the White House said, and an unspecified sum may also be used to cover debt deferment for tsunami-affected countries.

Former presidents thanked
President Bush in January tapped former presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush to help encourage private-sector financial support for tsunami relief.

On Wednesday, the president said he is grateful for the fund-raising efforts by his father and Clinton. And he expressed appreciation "to all of those who have donated money to help those in need."

The White House said estimates place private-sector donations toward tsunami relief efforts at more than $700 million.

Clinton and the elder Bush will visit tsunami-affected countries this month, the White House said, including Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand and the Maldives.

Last week, the United Nations announced Clinton will serve as the world body's envoy for tsunami reconstruction efforts. (Full story)

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan believed "no one could possibly be better qualified for this task," a spokesman said.

Ulrich

My read on this is that the Pentagon is getting a few million dollars as "reimbursement" for their work during the Tsunami relief operations. I would guess that this money is going into a general fund (so it could be used to fund operations in Iraq, for example), even though publicly the expenditure would be labeled "humanitarian assitance for tsunami victims".

You can of course say that the military did indeed spend that money, so it was coming out of their pockets and it is a true reimbursement. But I wonder what percentage of the costs that the government accountants have come up with is really relief operation-related and how much would have been incurred regardless in regular operations, sailing, training, etc. Let's say it costs $5 million a day to keep the fleet at sea, and the total costs for 20 days of relief efforts is $200 million, should the entire amount be booked as humanitarian aid or just the extra $100 million? By reimbursing $200 million, the Pentagon in effect gets a $100 million boost in its funding.

But that's a different discussion for a different thread.

cordycord

Ulrich,

Our guys were the first ones there, and it costs $5 million a day to keep a flat-top fleet working. We also flew in choppers and C-130's for supply distribution. Their quick work probably saved 100,000 plus lives. On top of that, they were rationing the water on board (cutting back on laundry, etc.) so that they could send the extra water they produced to the tsunami victims. While this was happening, the fighter jockeys, who are required to have flat-top landings at regular intervals, have all fallen out of training--it may sound petty, but it puts their lives at risk (not to mention a $50 million plane) when this happens.

I find your sentiments very short-sighted.

Ulrich

I am not trying to diminsh what the military has done, don't misunderstand me. I was just commenting on the potential for creative accounting that I see.

And the numbers I used are purely hypothetical, to explain my train of thought. I have no idea what it costs to operate a jet or a carrier.

If you really wanted to go back to that old debate we had a few weeks ago, this would come back to the question how foreign aid/humanitarian relief/etc is being calculated. The US typically would include military aid in their statistics; otehr countries do not.

But, again, this is not the right thread to discuss that.

valentine

I suppose that a little "creative accounting" has been done in every administration, Ulrich, however, I do think it is a bit nit-picky if everytime the President asks for budget $$, we're going to throw up our hands and say, Oh, looky, looky, more money for the guys toting guns. The USA has been front and center from day one to help these poor folks. Let's just assume for ONCE that the $$ is going to tsunami relief and not being funneled to some secret military operation on the shores of Sri Lanka.