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Old Aug 21, 2022 | 10:22 AM
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Army Special Forces and Navy Seals have nothing on members of the Air Force Special Operations. Their mission profiles may be very different from those of the Army and Navy special forces but their training is just as demanding and their jobs are just as critical to the success of the special ops they are part of, to say nothing of their roll in saving the lives of their fellow war fighters and of friendly civilians who are under threat or wounded.

The funny thing is, I was in the Air Force for four years and never heard about these elite soldiers. Unlike the Green Berets and Navy Seals, this group tends to maintain a lower profile.

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Old Aug 21, 2022 | 12:00 PM
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So AFSW (Air Force Special Warfare) does their job better than Navy SEALs would do the Air Forces job but the SEALs have a different mission. AFSW doesn’t have quite the combat prowess that the SEALs do but that’s not their primary job.
The AF bills their spec ops of having Global Access, Precision Strikes, Recovery of downed service members, and battlefield surgery. The SEALS have the first three totally covered (especially recovering aircrew/ hostage situations and recovery in urban/military settings) Ask Bin Laden how precise the SEALS can strike.
I will give you the SEALS are not trained for setting up battlefield surgery. The AF focuses on Airtraffic Controllers, Combat Control, pararescue, and EMT.
The SEALS focus on actual combat and destruction of whatever is needed by the inter service SOC, Special Operations Command. There is an ocean of difference between AFSW crew listed as "Qualified SCUBA Divers" (per AF website) and what the SEALS do launching from submarines, high altitude drops, long distance underwater strikes and that is just speaking a bit of what they do on the water!
I spent a few years in my reserve job in Pearl Harbor of Plans and Policy for the SEALS. I wasn't trained as a SEAL but I sure became familiar, closely so, of what they do and know of what they are capable of.
If you need a MASH unit, you need to stick an FAA controller in a newly captured (by SEALS) airfield, and rescue the occasional (peacetime) downed airman, hey, the AF special ops can do that. Everything else, SEALS (and other spec ops if you don't have enough SEALS to go around)
If something positively has to be destroyed and taken out, think SEALS.
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Old Aug 21, 2022 | 04:01 PM
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First off, Mike, having done my time in the USAF I too never heard of them. Thanks for sharing. The video makes it very clear what their mission is and that takes nothing away from the other branches of service which is more typical of what we think of with the term seals.
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Old Aug 21, 2022 | 04:16 PM
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My son went to basic training with a guy that became CCT. He told him later that they work hand in hand with the other branches on a daily basis.
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Old Aug 23, 2022 | 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cosmomiller
So AFSW (Air Force Special Warfare) does their job better than Navy SEALs would do the Air Forces job but the SEALs have a different mission. AFSW doesn’t have quite the combat prowess that the SEALs do but that’s not their primary job.
The AF bills their spec ops of having Global Access, Precision Strikes, Recovery of downed service members, and battlefield surgery. The SEALS have the first three totally covered (especially recovering aircrew/ hostage situations and recovery in urban/military settings) Ask Bin Laden how precise the SEALS can strike.
I will give you the SEALS are not trained for setting up battlefield surgery. The AF focuses on Airtraffic Controllers, Combat Control, pararescue, and EMT.
The SEALS focus on actual combat and destruction of whatever is needed by the inter service SOC, Special Operations Command. There is an ocean of difference between AFSW crew listed as "Qualified SCUBA Divers" (per AF website) and what the SEALS do launching from submarines, high altitude drops, long distance underwater strikes and that is just speaking a bit of what they do on the water!
I spent a few years in my reserve job in Pearl Harbor of Plans and Policy for the SEALS. I wasn't trained as a SEAL but I sure became familiar, closely so, of what they do and know of what they are capable of.
If you need a MASH unit, you need to stick an FAA controller in a newly captured (by SEALS) airfield, and rescue the occasional (peacetime) downed airman, hey, the AF special ops can do that. Everything else, SEALS (and other spec ops if you don't have enough SEALS to go around)
If something positively has to be destroyed and taken out, think SEALS.
Absolutely true, as the video makes clear. I only meant to say that the men and women who serve in AFSW are every bit as impressive in their skills and training as the various special ops folks in the other service branches.
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Old Aug 23, 2022 | 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cosmomiller
So AFSW (Air Force Special Warfare) does their job better than Navy SEALs would do the Air Forces job but the SEALs have a different mission. AFSW doesn’t have quite the combat prowess that the SEALs do but that’s not their primary job.
The AF bills their spec ops of having Global Access, Precision Strikes, Recovery of downed service members, and battlefield surgery. The SEALS have the first three totally covered (especially recovering aircrew/ hostage situations and recovery in urban/military settings) Ask Bin Laden how precise the SEALS can strike.
I will give you the SEALS are not trained for setting up battlefield surgery. The AF focuses on Airtraffic Controllers, Combat Control, pararescue, and EMT.
The SEALS focus on actual combat and destruction of whatever is needed by the inter service SOC, Special Operations Command. There is an ocean of difference between AFSW crew listed as "Qualified SCUBA Divers" (per AF website) and what the SEALS do launching from submarines, high altitude drops, long distance underwater strikes and that is just speaking a bit of what they do on the water!
I spent a few years in my reserve job in Pearl Harbor of Plans and Policy for the SEALS. I wasn't trained as a SEAL but I sure became familiar, closely so, of what they do and know of what they are capable of.
If you need a MASH unit, you need to stick an FAA controller in a newly captured (by SEALS) airfield, and rescue the occasional (peacetime) downed airman, hey, the AF special ops can do that. Everything else, SEALS (and other spec ops if you don't have enough SEALS to go around)
If something positively has to be destroyed and taken out, think SEALS.
I agree. I was stationed in San Diego at the Naval base while serving in the Navy. The training facility for the SEALS was between San Diego and Tijuana. We got to know some of the SEALS and I became friends with a Lieutenant who headed up some of the training. He gave me a declassified training manual which was what their training and advanced training consisted of. It was unbelievable what these warriors were capable of. The SEALS team 6 found and killed Osama Bin Laden and many other Al Quieda leaders. All of these special forces have special skills but I believe the SEALS are the elite warriors of all of them.
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Old Aug 23, 2022 | 08:00 PM
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When I was gainfully employed in the Secure Communications field, I was happy and proud to have supported the Special Ops teams in all of the U.S. services over the years. I have a special place in my heart for Seal Team Six because on some of my trips to Hawaii I got to meet them in person. The other Special Ops teams were mostly via telephone. With the exception of the team stationed at then Andrews AFB in Maryland. Another contractor had summoned me to Andrews to a VERY Secure and sensitive area without getting the proper clearance before hand. We were about to enter a location what had a sign on the door stating: "That this area is approved by the Commanding General to use deadly force to prevent unauthorized entry" The Officer of the Day stopped us with his hand on his .45 caliber side arm. And challenged us. I responded: "That my feet will NOT move an inch from this spot until you get this cleared up." As it turned out within minutes we were cleared to go into that area. It was an area where the 89th Airlift Wing that supports the entire Executive Fleet including Air Force One interfaces with WHCA (White House Communications Agency).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Team_Six
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Old Aug 30, 2022 | 04:02 PM
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The SEALS are tough, but at what cost? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/u...smid=share-url
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Old Aug 30, 2022 | 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jukngene
The SEALS are tough, but at what cost? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/u...smid=share-url
And they say college frat houses are bad. How can that crap fly under the radar?
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Old Sep 1, 2022 | 10:38 AM
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Undersea Demolition and now the SEALS has existed for 3/4s of a century. It has always been tough. As I kid growing up in Coronado, we could go down to the training site on the beach by the Amphib Base and try our hand at the obstacle courses, climb the ropes and see if we could make it over the barriers. It was all open then, not so now. We saw the training going on right in front of us. We even observed the instructors shooting live rounds over the trainees as the struggled on the ground in the obstacle course! I got to see more as the Plans and Policy officer for CINCPACFLT.

I am not surprised that some guys would use drugs and performance enhancing substances to think they might make it through. Remember all that is prohibited and I agree with the article/Navy perspective that using that illegal substance casts doubt on that candidates judgement that is critical for eventual down range deployments. Ironically, what your body is like, how strong you are or not, does not matter one iota. The entire course is designed to take you to the limits of strength. You will get there no matter if you are Arnold Swarzenegger or Dwayne Johnson. You will be taken to the limits of hypothermia (actually carefully monitored) hunger, sleep deprivation, and seemingly overwhelming objectives. You will be thrown blindfolded underwater, stripped of your scuba gear and be forced (or quit) to put it all back together while being harassed by instructors underwater with you. You will feel pain. A lot of discomfort, big time. Why? Everyone knows you will reach rock bottom of physical and mental limits. The Navy wants to see the all important, and here it is absolutely critical: mental toughness. That toughness to endure the seemingly hopeless situations and continue to fight and accomplish your mission. Never give up, EVER, and never leave a Team Member behind. Period. End of discussion. Just as an aside, the most successful "type" of individual who makes it through is not the giant beast of a man. It is a middle of the road but in shape kind of guy. As I said earlier, it is not about strength, it is mental toughness and application. It is easy to spot the newly graduated BUD (Basic Underwater Demolition) guys walking around Coronado. They are lean and buff beyond belief. They have the "look". You can see it in their eyes and how they carry themselves. Finishing a BUD class is just the beginning of training. Each one will spend at least a year training for the specialties they wind up in for the team.

There have been BUD classes that the passing rate was zero. That is okay by me and the Navy. The SEALS are a small group and they are best. No reason to pad the ranks with those with hurt feelings to get them enrolled. I see the NY Times article as a jab at a training program that is not PC, all masculine, and therefore toxic.

The objective to all this is to win. Combat readiness. It is not a program to be "inclusive" or "diverse" or magically create "equity". It is to kill your enemy, destroy objectives and stay alive/together to do it again and again. Keep it coming just as it is.
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