ralper

I have often heard it said that it is much better to get old than not to. Usually I agree with that statement, but sometimes I wonder if those whose twilight years are full of pain, dependency and despair are really better off.

I greatly admire those who are blessed with the ability to age gracefully. As the years progress and they lose a step it doesn't matter. They seem to always be in sync with their age and their ability. The wrinkles on their faces and the grey hair looks like wisdom. They always manage somehow to carry themselves with a sense of grace and dignity. These people, the lucky ones, wear their age very well.

Then there are the others, those who are not so blessed or so lucky. Those who dread each passing year because with it comes more pain and suffering. Those whose bodies are ravaged by the effects of cancer and its treatment, and those who are cursed with the old age diseases like dimentia and Altzheimers disease and others. I wonder, if in their lucid moments, do they believe that it is better to get older than not to?

I have always believed that life is precious and worth preserving. I have always believed that where there is life there is hope. My own experience with my parents has been a positive one. They have lived a rich and full life, and even though my father is now recovering from some major surgery and infection, for them it has been better to get old than not to. Yet I look at one of my oldest and dearest friends who is my age (mid 50s) and in the advanced stages of Lyme disease. He will probably never leave the hospital again or function on his own. Is it better for him to get older, or maybe it would be more merciful if he didn't. Or those of my contemporaries who are suffering with cancer or other disease. I wonder how they feel about getting older?

This is something that I think about every now and again. I don't pretend to know the answers, just the questions. How about you?

Chazmo

Wow, what a subject, Rob!!! And, what better place to bring it up than Vintage...

I, personally, do not believe that life is sacred. I don't want to offend any of our membership, but I find that position to be inconsistent with human nature.

We kill "lower" and "higher" forms of life for various self-serving reasons.

This is the kind of discussion where I tend to lean on the Utilitarian Principle: maximize happiness in the world. Saving or extinguishing a life needs to lead to that goal. If it does, then it's the right thing to do. Of course, it's rarely so black and white when you're talking about growing old. Doctors struggle with this every day.

I'll simply agree with you, Rob, that I'm not pretending to know the answers.

paS2K

There are many facets to this quandry. Here's my own thought:

*I've written before about my older brother. Only 63 but going downhill rapidly with Emphysema...O2 @ 24/7 now.....after 50 years of smoking. It's on my mind b/c we're spending the July 4th long weekend to visit him in Lake George area. His ability to function is less and less each time we visit....every 6 months or so He has previously mentioned that he does not want to go to a nursing home and has implied that he'll commit suicide before that happens. At this point, all he has to live for are his aging dog and cat....does not even seem to get much joy out of a 10 month old grandchild What to do?

*At the other extreme, my Mother-in-Law will turn 91 in August. If you met her, you would think she's about 70 She walks 2 miles per day... and is one of the movers/ shakers in her retirement community. What a difference.....hardly seems fair

Jerry

gswetsky

As has been stated, WOW, what a subject! It'll be interesting to see what others have to say. As for myself, I cannot contribute a lot. I'm living out my retirement down here in Florida, existing on social security and pecking away at a small nest egg it took me much of my life to build. Were I to die tomorrow, I could go peacefully, knowing I was going to a better place and that I was leaving some of that nest egg to my descendants and no debts whatsoever.

But what if I don't die tomorrow? What if I linger on as a vegetable for years, not recognizing my friends or my nurse as even a fellow human being? What of the "nest egg" I worked for years so that I would be able to leave something material to someone else? What of that? It goes to a nursing home somewhere and instead of leaving something to be remembered by, my descendants are met with unpaid bills from the nursing home. Where's the justice? I worked fifty years for nothing - nada.

Justin and Intha have said they would take care of me if and when I can no longer take care of myself. But I don't want that either. They have enough to do with their own family and have better things to do than to wipe my tossie a couple times a day and listen to me snore the rest of the time.

I know where I'm going where I die. It's written in my Bible. God said nothing specific about suicide, but I've been through the horror of having a friend commit suicide after Justin's brother hung himself and the family was faced with the necessary decision to pull the plug. I sat next to Jeremy in the hospital, held his hand and cried. I don't think Justin could take having someone else so close to him (I am) end up the same way as Jeremy, so I guess that's out.

So what to do? As a Christian, I know now that my Savior has taken an active part in keeping me alive and well over these many years. Why would He stop now......

Did I say I didn't have a lot to say? Sorry, guess I was wrong.

Gerry

valentine

Wow, Gerry, that was beautifully said. I dread the horrors associated with being old, but do not pretend to know why some age so badly and have so many problems and others do not. I feel some of the aches and pains associated with being my age, but not nearly as much as many of my contemporaries. Most people think I'm much younger than I actually am, but I really am not ashamed of my age. My mother still goes out and walks 3 miles in an hour every morning, takes care of her mother and manages to run her house and does tons of charity work all the time. My grandmother will be 94 in July and is in great shape considering her age. My dad, however, was a vegetable by the time he died at only 66 years old and suffered horribly with Parkinson's. He was a very clean-living person and was a minister for about 40 years. I often wondered about the fairness of his experience since he did sooooo much for soooo many people, however, I suppose there are no promises that life will be fair and we must make the best of what we're given. One thing that I'm sure is true -- no matter how long we may live, life is short at best. I like to deal with everyone I meet kindly, think the best about everyone, not be judgmental -- we have no idea what experiences have brought people to the place where they are -- and to treat EVERYONE the way I'd like to be treated. I try to make the most of the days I have on this planet, smile often, frown little and care deeply. That's my $0.02.

MsPerky

We have alluded to this issue in other threads, and I do feel strongly that everyone should be in control of his or her own demise. Designate someone as medical power of attorney who you know will carry out your wishes if you are not able to.

My mother's serious and ongoing back pain has caused me to consider helping her end her life if she chooses to. So far she hasn't, although she has made some reference to it. My dad told me he has owned a copy of the book from the Hemlock Society for a couple of years. I don't have strong religious beliefs that would keep me from acting, if necessary, for my own or my loved ones' benefit.

I just try to take each day as it comes and live my life the best way I know how. So far, I'm in great shape - I plan to keep it that way!

Legal Bill

Rob really touches on the big issue for me. Extra years are nice, but are they quality years? I plan to exercise hard for the rest of my life. I figure if I take up heavy drinking in my 60s and keep exercising hard I'll have a nice quick heart attack or grand mall siezure before I become useless. I'd rather dies healthy and drunk in my 70s than weak and sober in my 90s. But you know what they say about the best laid plans....

Hustn

Well damn, I'm depressed now.

gswetsky

Thanks, Bill! You've made us all feel ever so much better.



Gerry

Lainey

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legal Bill
Rob really touches on the big issue for me.