Honda and the future
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Mish-she-gan
Honda and the future
In 1972, Honda achieved a breakthrough that defines the company to this day.
Then still a tiny Japanese vehicle maker, Honda devised an engine few thought possible. It passed strict new EPA emissions tests without performance-sapping catalytic converters.
The now-famous CVCC engine exemplified the scrappy self-reliance founder Soichiro Honda infused into the company's DNA. For decades, it set the bar for Honda engineering.
But the era of self-reliance is over. Today's Honda, a middling player on the global stage and increasingly squeezed by larger domestic rivals Toyota and Nissan, concedes it finally needs outside help to meet the challenges of the future.
Honda's new strategy calls for forging loose partnerships to cover its weak spots, which include a cross-section of next-generation technologies with which Honda suddenly finds itself needing aid, from green drivetrains and artificial intelligence to self-driving cars.
"We recognize the need for a fundamental transformation," CEO Takahiro Hachigo says of the carmaker's pivot. "We will not do everything on our own."
Honda's challenge will be protecting its independence and identity as it leans more on others.
The shift kicked off this year, with Honda announcing it would partner with Hitachi Automotive Systems to produce and sell electric motors for a future wave of electric vehicles. It was a sign of changing times for a company whose engineers once pointed with pride to the "Motor" in the company's name and joked they would always build their own.
That was followed by a joint venture with General Motors to build costly hydrogen fuel cell stacks for next-generation green vehicles at a factory in Michigan.
On the software side, Honda set up a Silicon Valley-inspired artificial intelligence hothouse dubbed the Honda R&D Innovation Lab Tokyo. It is housed in a downtown Tokyo skyscraper. To lead it, Honda again sought outside expertise in Edward Feigenbaum, a Stanford University computer whiz and former chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force.
But Honda hasn't abandoned its independent streak.
Even as it reaches out, it is investing more in its own high-tech know-how.
In April, it formed an r&d unit to tackle the next generation of software-heavy technologies. Dubbed R&D Center X, it focuses on robotics, mobility systems and energy management. Honda wants its work reflected in cars by around 2020.
And in June, the longtime EV skeptic revealed it had been quietly working on a range of electric vehicles under a new EV development division created in virtual secrecy in October 2016. It is working on EVs for China, Europe and beyond. The first go on sale next year.
But those changes aren't coming easy.
Last month, Hachigo announced the rare shuttering of a Honda assembly plant in Japan as the company shifts its domestic manufacturing focus toward electrified cars. A newer plant nearby will be repositioned as a global mother plant for EVs.
Expect more growing pains as Japan's No. 3 automaker shifts gears for the future.
"We have been lagging behind a little," Honda R&D Co. President Yoshiyuki Matsumoto says of the push. "So, we are now trying to catch up. We are tightening the screws quickly."
Source: http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...liance-is-over
Then still a tiny Japanese vehicle maker, Honda devised an engine few thought possible. It passed strict new EPA emissions tests without performance-sapping catalytic converters.
The now-famous CVCC engine exemplified the scrappy self-reliance founder Soichiro Honda infused into the company's DNA. For decades, it set the bar for Honda engineering.
But the era of self-reliance is over. Today's Honda, a middling player on the global stage and increasingly squeezed by larger domestic rivals Toyota and Nissan, concedes it finally needs outside help to meet the challenges of the future.
Honda's new strategy calls for forging loose partnerships to cover its weak spots, which include a cross-section of next-generation technologies with which Honda suddenly finds itself needing aid, from green drivetrains and artificial intelligence to self-driving cars.
"We recognize the need for a fundamental transformation," CEO Takahiro Hachigo says of the carmaker's pivot. "We will not do everything on our own."
Honda's challenge will be protecting its independence and identity as it leans more on others.
The shift kicked off this year, with Honda announcing it would partner with Hitachi Automotive Systems to produce and sell electric motors for a future wave of electric vehicles. It was a sign of changing times for a company whose engineers once pointed with pride to the "Motor" in the company's name and joked they would always build their own.
That was followed by a joint venture with General Motors to build costly hydrogen fuel cell stacks for next-generation green vehicles at a factory in Michigan.
On the software side, Honda set up a Silicon Valley-inspired artificial intelligence hothouse dubbed the Honda R&D Innovation Lab Tokyo. It is housed in a downtown Tokyo skyscraper. To lead it, Honda again sought outside expertise in Edward Feigenbaum, a Stanford University computer whiz and former chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force.
But Honda hasn't abandoned its independent streak.
Even as it reaches out, it is investing more in its own high-tech know-how.
In April, it formed an r&d unit to tackle the next generation of software-heavy technologies. Dubbed R&D Center X, it focuses on robotics, mobility systems and energy management. Honda wants its work reflected in cars by around 2020.
And in June, the longtime EV skeptic revealed it had been quietly working on a range of electric vehicles under a new EV development division created in virtual secrecy in October 2016. It is working on EVs for China, Europe and beyond. The first go on sale next year.
But those changes aren't coming easy.
Last month, Hachigo announced the rare shuttering of a Honda assembly plant in Japan as the company shifts its domestic manufacturing focus toward electrified cars. A newer plant nearby will be repositioned as a global mother plant for EVs.
Expect more growing pains as Japan's No. 3 automaker shifts gears for the future.
"We have been lagging behind a little," Honda R&D Co. President Yoshiyuki Matsumoto says of the push. "So, we are now trying to catch up. We are tightening the screws quickly."
Source: http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...liance-is-over
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
I don't know Dave. You've been predicting Honda's demise for a long time now. With all the perceived problems they currently have 3 of the top 10 selling vehicles in America, and their Civic is the top selling automobile. Without knowing specifics, I've heard that they have some amazing and innovated things in the pipeline. It seems that they are no longer asleep, I'm not convinced that they ever really were.
I wouldn't be too concerned about Honda. I think they'll be fine.
I wouldn't be too concerned about Honda. I think they'll be fine.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,849
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From: Mish-she-gan
Rob, I agree. I've love Honda, from my first, 1983 (is that right?) Accord from Marysville to my S2000 from Japan. Maybe that's why I stay up on their news and I figure folks here may have an interest. A decade or so ago it was very evident they lost their MoJo. As for now, I don't know. Really I don't. When it comes to the street they hold their own. They have been an embarrassment in Formula 1. They should not have come back until they had a chance to be ready. But this post was about where they are now! And what they are saying! To me, it just seems a lot like F1, they just can't keep up anymore without help.
As I told the salesman who called me tonight, Yes, I am interested in a CRV-EX AWD but I want a 2.0L turbo like they are putting in the Accord. He said there is nothing in their forecast to suggest its coming through the 2019 timeframe. Chance's are good I'll buy one for all the other reasons but more output would seal the deal tonight.
Camry’s chief engineer believes Honda is compromising too much with a redesigned Accord that drops its V-6 in favor of a turbocharged four-cylinder. He said Honda's move is a bow to Chinese market considerations. Strict emissions controls in China penalize displacements of more than 2.0 liters. He said, In the case of the U.S., they still love the V-6. While I agree with his position I'd be very be very happy with a 2.0L four cylinder and can't get that. At this point they only offer a 1.5L. Great mileage, like 32 mpg, but I know they have expressways in Ohio with on ramps (for example) and someone from Honda must have sensed We Need More.
As I told the salesman who called me tonight, Yes, I am interested in a CRV-EX AWD but I want a 2.0L turbo like they are putting in the Accord. He said there is nothing in their forecast to suggest its coming through the 2019 timeframe. Chance's are good I'll buy one for all the other reasons but more output would seal the deal tonight.
Camry’s chief engineer believes Honda is compromising too much with a redesigned Accord that drops its V-6 in favor of a turbocharged four-cylinder. He said Honda's move is a bow to Chinese market considerations. Strict emissions controls in China penalize displacements of more than 2.0 liters. He said, In the case of the U.S., they still love the V-6. While I agree with his position I'd be very be very happy with a 2.0L four cylinder and can't get that. At this point they only offer a 1.5L. Great mileage, like 32 mpg, but I know they have expressways in Ohio with on ramps (for example) and someone from Honda must have sensed We Need More.
Last edited by dlq04; Nov 14, 2017 at 08:46 PM.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,471
Likes: 35
From: Upstate NY
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,849
Likes: 8,352
From: Mish-she-gan
Bill, The less pricy RDX is $10k above my price range of $30k and the nearest dealer is 30 miles away. At this point I have sat in 27 SUVs in my search but the Acura is not one of them. The V6 is tempting. I'd consider one coming off a 2-year lease if it met my needs. I probably should at least try one. For the past 20 years almost every car we've owned is from a dealership that's been 30 miles away. Even when you don't need them often, when you do, arranging maintenance is a issue I am hoping to avoid. Honda's only a mile away.
Good to know Honda is still carrying on in the cycle world, which I do not follow.
Good to know Honda is still carrying on in the cycle world, which I do not follow.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Dave,
I don't disagree with you concerning Formula 1. They have been a disappointment, but not because they don't have the engineering skill or know how. The problem is that for the last few years their focus has shifted. That said, if they weren't focused on Formula 1 they probably should have left it. Nonetheless, I think you'll be seeing some changes in the near future.
As far as reaching outside and partnering with other companies, Toyota, which is probably the smartest and best run company in the auto industry has been doing it for years. I don't think it's a problem. I agree that Honda has always been an independent company that marched to the beat of it's own drummer, and this is a change. I don't think it'll hurt the company nor do I think it'll make much difference in the long run. Too much of Honda's culture in ingrained in the organization. Honda, for the most part, will always behave like Honda.
Adam can't tell me details, but from what he does tell me, the testing that they put the engines through is unbelievable. Honda is and will always be a motor company.
I don't disagree with you concerning Formula 1. They have been a disappointment, but not because they don't have the engineering skill or know how. The problem is that for the last few years their focus has shifted. That said, if they weren't focused on Formula 1 they probably should have left it. Nonetheless, I think you'll be seeing some changes in the near future.
As far as reaching outside and partnering with other companies, Toyota, which is probably the smartest and best run company in the auto industry has been doing it for years. I don't think it's a problem. I agree that Honda has always been an independent company that marched to the beat of it's own drummer, and this is a change. I don't think it'll hurt the company nor do I think it'll make much difference in the long run. Too much of Honda's culture in ingrained in the organization. Honda, for the most part, will always behave like Honda.
Adam can't tell me details, but from what he does tell me, the testing that they put the engines through is unbelievable. Honda is and will always be a motor company.
Last edited by ralper; Nov 15, 2017 at 03:11 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
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From: Randolph, NJ
Bill, The less pricy RDX is $10k above my price range of $30k and the nearest dealer is 30 miles away. At this point I have sat in 27 SUVs in my search but the Acura is not one of them. The V6 is tempting. I'd consider one coming off a 2-year lease if it met my needs. I probably should at least try one. For the past 20 years almost every car we've owned is from a dealership that's been 30 miles away. Even when you don't need them often, when you do, arranging maintenance is a issue I am hoping to avoid. Honda's only a mile away.
Good to know Honda is still carrying on in the cycle world, which I do not follow.
Good to know Honda is still carrying on in the cycle world, which I do not follow.
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,366
Likes: 1,795
Dave,
I don't disagree with you concerning Formula 1. They have been a disappointment, but not because they don't have the engineering skill or know how. The problem is that for the last few years their focus has shifted. That said, if they weren't focused on Formula 1 they probably should have left it. Nonetheless, I think you'll be seeing some changes in the near future.
As far as reaching outside and partnering with other companies, Toyota, which is probably the smartest and best run company in the auto industry has been doing it for years. I don't think it's a problem. I agree that Honda has always been an independent company that marched to the beat of it's own drummer, and this is a change. I don't think it'll hurt the company nor do I think it'll make much difference in the long run. Too much of Honda's culture in ingrained in the organization. Honda, for the most part, will always behave like Honda.
Adam can't tell me details, but from what he does tell me, the testing that they put the engines through is unbelievable. Honda is and will always be a motor company.
I don't disagree with you concerning Formula 1. They have been a disappointment, but not because they don't have the engineering skill or know how. The problem is that for the last few years their focus has shifted. That said, if they weren't focused on Formula 1 they probably should have left it. Nonetheless, I think you'll be seeing some changes in the near future.
As far as reaching outside and partnering with other companies, Toyota, which is probably the smartest and best run company in the auto industry has been doing it for years. I don't think it's a problem. I agree that Honda has always been an independent company that marched to the beat of it's own drummer, and this is a change. I don't think it'll hurt the company nor do I think it'll make much difference in the long run. Too much of Honda's culture in ingrained in the organization. Honda, for the most part, will always behave like Honda.
Adam can't tell me details, but from what he does tell me, the testing that they put the engines through is unbelievable. Honda is and will always be a motor company.
They still make competitive small engines. As shown by their motorcycle GP and MX ones.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,471
Likes: 35
From: Upstate NY
One of the reasons I buy Hondas and Acuras is that I don't have to deal with the dealers. My S2000 has never been to a dealer since I bought it. The only time our TSX went to a dealer was for two recalls.