Not fully understanding your purchase time frame, here are my quick thoughts

Existing Civic Si Sedan, don't wait for the updated Civic to come, and who knows if the next Sedan will come in an Si

Your Navi demand clearly limits you in this price category

 

I could not agree more.

I have zero issues with you, and I'm well aware that we all cannot believe in the same thing, and I respect that, otherwise life would be a boar.

I love Honda, I love Honda more than you could believe I bet, and when it comes right down to it, I have more passion for my CRX than I do for my S2000. Sure the S is awesome, and I will never let it go, but the CRX-Si, it is more, it is the wolf in sheep's clothing. My CRX-Si will out handle my S any day of the week because of the suspension changes I have made to it, and because Honda created such an awesome, super strong little structure for me to start with.

In addition I am devoted to Honda because of 2-wheel fun, I started out on Honda's first I4 bike, a little 350/4, 13,000 redline in 1973. My existing '00 VFR 800Fi is the amazing V4 with the race breed GEAR driven double overhead cams, my little 800cc bike engine makes 110 hp and will spin at 12,000 rpm's all day long.

When I look at the existing Honda lineup I'm forced to conclude, they got nothing I would buy, they got nothing that I would dream of having more money to afford, they got nothing for me anymore, and that is what I believe this thread is about. Many of us who have been devoted to Honda seem them now as not having anything for us. And to me, that is very, very sad.

My critique of American Honda and my belief that the decision makers at American Honda have absolutely zero passion for cars has absolutely nothing to do with you. My disdain is far larger than any one person, by complete despondency for the company is the issue.

Every day I'm forced to face the facts, the next car I lust for is a Ford, NOT A HONDA, and that saddens me deeply. It saddens me enough that I get all passionate and type out replies here. But when Ford can offer up a hot looking Focus ST with a turbo I4 with 247 hp and 266 ft-lbs and Honda can only MAYBE offer up a 1.6 turbo I4 with 160, my little brain says that Honda will only have 65% of the power of the Ford. I don't give a rat's ass about fuel economy, I want performance, and I'll give my hard earned money to whatever company can supply me with that, and nowadays it seems Honda just does not care about making things for people like me, and that makes me sad...

Ya don't have a 20-year old car like this without extreme passion for the car/brand





Those pics were taken about a month ago, just before I put Rex in the garage and put the winter storage cover over it. And in the spring when the batteries go back into the vehicles, it always seems the 1st one I'm most dying to go drive is the CRX-Si. Too bad the CR-Z will never find a spot in my garage, where frankly, it would belong if it was to come with some real power. And I'm convinced, if we get a Si with 160 hp, and they also make a Type R with 200, they will do the same thing to that as they did with the Civic Type R, they will make it, but all they will do is dangle it in front of our noses, not allowing us in North America to buy it.

 

That's cool Doug - sounds like something I would do

 

Interesting in the context of this thread:
Automobile mag compares the Si to the VW GT

Does their verdict (for the 20something driver) surprise anyone?

 

[QUOTE=paS2K,Dec 10 2010, 01:35 PM] Interesting in the context of this thread:
[URL=http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1011_the_perfect_car_for_every_life_crisis/civic_gti.html]

 

I'm glad they noted the $2500 premium paid for the VW. For that amount of money, some very serious mods can be done to the Civic that would enhance its track prowess significantly. The VW is a very nice driving car, though there is always that question of reliability that VW just hasn't been able to quite overcome. They were good, then not so much, then good again, then not so much. It's a crap shoot what you get from year to year it seems. The Honda is much more solidly reliable, but some would say a little boring. I'll make that trade, but then I'm no longer in my 20's either. I can see why a much younger guy would tap the VW over the Civic.

 

I completely agree the S2000 was not treated even handedly. I think it was politics, but that's just my opinion and I won't get into that here. You may not realize it, but the cars driven by Lee and Chad ARE Honda Corporate sponsored with a tremendous amount of work put in by those and other associates. And there has been a team out of the Ohio factories, HART, for many years that I used to be a part of. HART has had great success in several series and with many different cars and classes over the 20 or so years it has existed. Wow, can't believe it's been THAT long. I'm getting OLD.

Then there are teams out of Honda Canada Mfg, Honda R&D West (LA), and even a drag race and rally team out of the Anna Engine factory in OH. There's been no shortage of grass roots type racing from within Hondas various divisions in North America. As for American Honda, they appear to prefer the bigger series like Indy or ALMS to express their racing desires. Formula F (Fit motors) is surely going to take off over the next few years following on the heals of the successful Formula Ford of the last few decades.

 

I hope the quote from the other thread is wrong. I don't care for supercharged or turbocharged engines. I much prefer naturally aspirated engines. I also hope the Si always remains with the Civic. As much as I like the CR-Z, and I do like it, it just doesn't serve my purpose. I wouldn't mind if Honda ran a CR-Z Si and a Civic Si at the same time.

For me, and for my purposes, the Civic Si is the perfect car.

 

I don't know. I don't think the issue is the $2500 price differential, I think the issue is how the car drives and whether it suits the owner's purposes. Nor do I think that results at an autocross is a fair way to judge a car (except of course for its ability in an autocross).

My point is, for someone like me who is looking for a sporty, fun to drive car to use as a daily driver, with all of the requirements of a daily driver, it's very hard to beat the Si, especially in this price range. That, in fact might be the very limiting factor to the Si. Honda has taken, after all, a utilitarian car (the Civic) and tweeked it. When push comes to shove, it is still a Civic. That in fact is what makes it so very perfect for me. It's a Civic when I need a Civic and an Si when I want to have fun. That, I think is the brilliance of the car.

And, it starts every morning and gets me home every night.

 

If it meant losing out on a high revving engine and the whole VTEC experience, then I think I'd hope to be wrong as well.

My post was based on the TOV blog post about the Autocar article that said Honda was considering a turbo-charged 160 HP engine for the CR-Z. That article also went to say a higher performance version of the engine was being developed with a targeted output of 200 HP which would find its way into the Type-R/ Si in addition to a high performance CR-Z.