ralper

I protest the fact that the mere mention of the words "politics" or "religion" or one single post containing some political commentary can cause a thread to be banished to the Politics subforum. That is what happened to the "Maps" thread. There was an excellent, intelligent conversation going on in that thread, the kind of conversation that made the Vintage forum so good. A few people used the words politics and religion and one poster decided to post some political commentary, and now the thread has been moved to the graveyard known as Politics.

The Politics subforum was founded many years ago because of the conflicts and fights caused by a few people who insisted upon presenting their political views. It was thought that the conflict could be moved out of the regular forum if there was a political subforum. Unfortunately, guests can't go there and most of the rest of us don't go there. Once a thread is moved there, it generally dies from inactivity.

The "Maps" thread was an intelligent, civil discussion. There were differences of opinion, but as is usually the case in Vintage, the discussion was civil. A few mentions of the words and one political post caused the thread to be moved.

It is my opinion that the offending (I'm not even sure that the one post was really offending) post should have been deleted and the thread left here to continue.

If you agree with me, please post your feelings. If you disagree with me, please post your feeling. I think it would be nice to know how everyone feels about this.

jukngene

Rob, in this case, I agree with you. As in another thread, the questionable post was simply deleted, and the discussion continued. LB made a good suggestion, and I don't see why this one should be treated any differently. This was an interesting, intelligently discussed subject until "someone" made their political views all too obvious.

Delete the offending posts and bring the discussion back to the main forum.

toekneer

You should know by now you can't say anything without pissing somebody off and their ire will be political or religious. I had the battle awhile back. Thought my post was innocent enough and intended to be funny. Try being a moderator for a while without pissing somebody off.

Sent by carrier pigeon

Legal Bill

Of course you are correct Rob. That thread should not have been moved.

S1997

Peoples' opinions differ at times about what posts are clearly political or what posts invite and egg on political comments by others. Moderators are appointed to enforce the site posting rules that disallow political comments or posts in any thread in S2ki, except in the two Politics venues. Otherwise opinions about politics or religion are not permitted anywhere on the site. Without the Politics venues any offending threads would be locked or removed. I think all who have posted in this thread would agree that the Maps thread was waxing political, and that people were not being careful to observe the no politics rules. In fact this is not the only thread that has been in question recently about whether a given post was political. I think the issue here is not so much whether the thread contained political views or was inviting political opinions, but what exactly should have been the moderators' decision about what action to take. The consensus so far in this thread is that the thread should have been saved by pruning, censoring, editing, or cleaning up the offending posts. As is often the case, there is a disagreement about the degree of the crossing the line in the egregious posts; if minor, then X, if major, then Y. Moderators do not like to be censors or editors, because posters tend to get personally upset if their posts are deleted or edited. Most often a thread can be saved by moving it to the Politics Subform for continued discussion without censoring it. Moderators have to make on the spot judgements about how to respond so that the posting rules are observed and so that members remain satisfied if not happy. Moderators are required by administration to enforce the site rules. If they don't enforce the rules they get replaced by folks who will. Fortunately, in Vintage, members are most often very good at carefully avoiding inappropriate posts. Some topics just easily move into the direction of politics, because political views are relevant even if not permitted. Most of us can drift in that direction from time to time.

Moderators calls are judgement calls. Moderators try to do their best to do what is right in each case. You may have strong views, and you may disagree with a call (and you may be right about your opinion in a given case).. But, hey, refs seldom change their calls. So give it up. No one is "right" here. If a moderating decision upsets you a great deal, you can also discuss the matter with an Admin on the site. It's like instant replay; they can either reverse or support a moderator's call. Also moderators can be PM-ed.

(Maybe the Vintage Politics Subform should be open to members and guests; but that might open it up to random participants who are not committed to civility.) It is a perfectly good venue and IMO should be used for lively discussions of matters from the heart - with firmness, kindness, and respect.

Lainey

With all due respect to the mods, I agree with Bill. A little house keeping would have sufficed.

fltsfshr

Maybe the rules should change. Weren't they created over name calling not issue discussion.

I vote for new rules (noting I'm a paying member) I'd also like new moderators. It's hard for them not to be subjective on issues, I understand that. I know I'm entitled to my opinion and repression is not a solution. It never was.

There are some folks in here I enjoy reading about so I wander through. That's why I come back.

I'd like to be able to carry on an adult issue oriented conversation in this forum. The only rule this forum needs is no name calling (Bush is stupid, Bill's a pervert and Obama's a terrorist).

Call names and your post is deleted. Otherwise let the discussion go on.

fltsfshr

Emil St-Hilaire

I would not blame the moderators,but the rules
It's not an easy job to please everybody,all the time,everytime.

Morris

I'm with Rob. Using the word politics ( in my case) does not mean it became a political thread.

dlq04

We all know which post killed the thread. I knew that was going to kill it as soon as I read it. As an aside, it amazes me that someone should think voicing their view will get others to change their mind, especially when it's a broad sweeping view that one party has the answer.

As for the thread in question, I agree with Rob. I would rather see the individual post be removed and the poster accept it since they knew they were crossing the line.