Hi all,

I recently had my 30,000 kilometer tune up and was slightly surprised to see that Honda is putting 0W20 oil across the complete (at least European) model range.

This means that after the break-in oil, I went to 10W30 (US spec?), to 5W30 (old EU spec?) to now 0W20 (new EU spec?).

I did have it done to my car (and also took one additional bottle for top-up), but I am thinking if this oil is not a bit over-kill for our engines. Especially in a normal climate (not too cold, not too hot).

Anybody that has some trustworthy and usefull comments about this (or better yet experience with this)new oil? Comments welcome!

When at room temperature, this stuff is as thin as sewing machine oil, so possibly real good for start-ups, but what about high temperatures when I go on vacation in nice hot South Europe for instance??

 

I'd be using a synthetic oil so the cold pouring isn't an issue. Beyond that, I'd be looking for at-temperature and high RPM protection. Based on these, I see no reason to change from 10W-30 Mobil 1 or similar...

 

Only heard of the Insight using 0W20 (in the Uk at least).

-Brian.

 

I'm sure Road Rage will step up to the plate soon. 0W20 in an engine that revs up to 9000 rpm in the summer's heat? I don't know about that.
On the other hand, all of the European cars now have the new 4 hole oil jet bolts going back to the first MY (recall). Maybe this makes Honda a bit more courageous, or could it be that only your dealer is misinformed. Some dealers in N. America have tried to put 0W20 into S2000s as well, but only because that's what Honda recommends on all their cars now and I don't believe they made a specific exception for the S2000.

 

I was shown the Honda workshop chart for oil and it actually did specify this for MY2003 and on. Also for the Integra and Civic type-R that we have here.

I have the same concern about the hot weather performance!!!

Sounds like I need to dive into this matter deeper (I'll go to the dealership next Friday, they are truly great people!)


Siepel

 

If it were synthetic, it may be a good choice to reduce viscous drag. However, I'd want to have the oil analyzed frequently...

 

I have done a lot of research around Ford's use of 5w20, and found conclusive proof that it was done for EPA mileage reasons, and to be a good corporate citizen for emissions as well. I have a letter that the EPA sent to Ford making them specify 5w20 MINERAL oil as the recommended oil for Fords, because the lower price would encourage people to use it. So, that is how the rumor on the SVT boards started that the Cobra Supercharged 4.6L is not "designed for synoil". An absolute engineering lie.

I did get a hold of some Ford engineering studies, and in hot weather testing of the 5w20, they found "no unacceptable wear". Acceptable to whom? Them? That means it only has to make 3 years/36k miles! Not acceptable to me.

I recommended 0w30 Amsoil Series 2000, 10w30 in any good synoil, and 5w40 synoil for the guys who had added pulleys, or Kenne Bell blowers to the car.

That advice pretty much stands for this thread as well. 0w20 is like sewing machine oil! It's viscosity at high temps has not been proven adequate to me, and I do not know any of my engineer pals at the SAE who use it.

Any good synthetic 10w30 is good for temps below zero, and the 0w30 Amsoil or 5w30 Red Line would be fine in the Arctic.

My advice is do not play guinea pig with your wonderful toy - let others do it. If, 5 years from now, we are not seeing abnormal wear of the cam lobes, bearings, and other highly stressed parts, then I will publicly retract this recomendation.

 

RR:

Interesting!

More interesting is that the oil is a 'faux' synthetic oil (i.e. mineral!!) 0W20...
BUT, we don't have the CAFE/EPA issues here in the Old Land. I'll try to get more info later.


Siepel

 

Read this:
"Two factors mandated by the Environmental Protection Agency are driving the renewed emphasis on motor oil improvements. The first is fuel economy. Lighter weight, lower viscosity oils generate better fuel efficiency; Ford Motor Co. has begun recommending that new buyers use 5W20 motor oil rather than the more common 10W30. However, lighter weight oils don't protect as well. Protective additives thus play a bigger role, which is where the second EPA factor, emissions control, comes into play.

The hottest topic in this area is the replacement of ZDDP because it contributes to increased carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions by deactivating a car's catalytic converter," Dr. Elsenbaumer said. "The EPA is saying you need the lighter weight oil for fuel economy, but then when you actually need more wear protection, you have to reduce the most widely used anti-wear additive, ZDDP. "

Let me help interpret this for you all. The car mfr's have been pressed to extend the air pollution equipment warranty on their cars to around 100k miles. ZDDP, or zinc dithiophosphate, is the finest anti-wear (AW) additive known to us - but as it accumulates in the catalytic converter, it starts to denigrate its efficiency over time. Around 60k miles. So, mfr's wanting to avoid costly repairs within the 100k emissions warranty have pressured the API to reduce the amount of ZDDP in the oil! Now, the oil companies have developed some chemical alternatives, but I have not seen where they have equaled ZDDP. They are "good enough". For those of us that want the best protection and longest life for our engines, higher ZDDP levels are apropos.

Red Line and Amsoil do not have API certification on their bottles because:
1) It costs a lot of money
2) They have decided to keep their ZDDP levels high

It is unfair when ignorant people point at the lack of API certification as somehow implying that Red Line and Amsoil are somehow "lacking". In fact, they are better.

So who is looking out for ya - the API, EPA, Ford/Honda, or Road Rage?

And here is the EPA URL:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf

 

Thank you Road Rage!