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06-14-2005, 11:16 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by cthree,Jun 1 2005, 12:07 PM
What don't you agree with? You said you don't agree with most of it so I'm curious.
My post was not related to the specific issue at hand (it was answered by HG directly with the topic starter offline) but is general in nature. I posted it here because I happened to be here at the time and have been around long enough to know how the bandwagon effect works.
We have an email address we use to respond to direct and specific issues members (or anyone for that matter) have. If you want a specific answer to a specific question you need to send your question or issue by email to support@s2ki.com (or help@s2ki.com or info@s2ki.com). We can assist you with whatever issue you've got.
Posting in a public forum is not an effective way for us to track, respond to or receive such requests. This is a discussion forum which implies an open conversation that anyone who's got an opinion can become involved in. "Why was my post/topic deleted" is not a talking point. It's a specific question seeking a specific answer which we are more than happy to provide; by email.
Asking "Why was my post/topic deleted?" in this forum is an invitation for everyone to respond with whatever gripe they may have (past, present or future) about moderation decisions; a public calling out of moderators, admins and the site rules and policies and has nothing to do with responding to the issue at hand. There are specific tools made for specific jobs. Forums are for topics seeking input from the population at large. Email and PM are for one-to-one communications.
It is in effect making a scene in an effort to create enough of a stink that we will be forced by way of humiliation into reconsidering or at a minimum justifying publicly the decision that was made. It is a means of coercing a result, it's overkill, it's annoying and it's unnecessary. You don't need to create drama to get what you are looking for, you could just ask. I know what you are doing and I know why you are doing it and I'm saying, publicly and for the record, that's it's going to produce the opposite result. You'll go on my shit list for trying to make my life miserable and my motivation to assist will drop to zero.
Sure if we ignore you or blow you off or give you some BS answer go ahead and kick our asses by posting what assholes we are. I would appreciate it if you'd do that AFTER giving us the chance to resolve your issue first.
You say no, no that's not what I'm implying but but it is in fact what you are saying so I don't think it's unreasonable of me to interpret it that way. For example:
You say you are writing about it, not asking a question but rather telling a story. You aren't mentioning a specific topic but rather topic moderation in general which I read as "one of more moderators is not being fair" or "the rules are unfair or unreasonable". I'm not sure which so I read on.
I'm reading "I don't know the rules" or "I disagree with the rules" so I look to see who the poster is, MacGyver, Gold Member, s2ki age: 4 yrs, 231 days. Well I've read more than one thread from this member of the past 4 years and from past experience I know this is a public complaint right off. I also know he's a Gold Member and I appreciate that so I can't just blow it off, I need to read it. I also know he's been around for a long time so he knows the rules so I can disregard the "fails to educate" bit. In the end I have to conclude this means "deleting a topic or post that I wrote is disrespectful". COMPLAIN.
I read "I'm important. How dare you touch my post!". POSTURE.
The actual question. This part, taken on it's own (save the lack of any specific information about the thread like a link or even the title) is fairly reasonable and warrants a response. ASK QUESTION.
In the final tally I'm reading COMPLAIN, POSTURE, ASK QUESTION. I point this out because in my original reply and in this one what I'm saying is the best way to get a quick and happy result is to say: ASK QUESTION. The COMPLAIN and POSTURE bits only serve to work against you. If you want really good results and maybe even say: COMPLIMENT, ASK QUESTION. I hesitate in mentioning that because it sounds like I'm looking for strokes but that's not true.
When you do decide to ASK QUESTION here are some tips:
1. Make it easy for me. Be specific about what you are looking for. Specific answers to specific questions are quick and easy to provide and are likely going to be handled first. I'll do the easy ones and save the messy ones for later. How long that is depends on how many other things I have to do.
2. If your question is related to something specific, like a topic, post or PM then make it easy for me to find. Provide me with a link so all I need to do to research the answer is click and read. If you don't have one then try to be as specific as possible what, where, when. This leads to #1 above.
3. Use the right tool. Don't post specific questions here. Use the support email address ( you can click the link at the top of the topic list in this forum). Using the email address will ensure we see the question in a timely fashion and allow us to track it through to completion. It saves the lengthy public discussion and the distraction of having to read a $1.50 worth of opinions. Again, leads to #1.
There you have it. You CAN have quick and satisfactory answers to your concerns and I can really love providing them. We can all be happy but it's needs to start on the right footing.
My post was not related to the specific issue at hand (it was answered by HG directly with the topic starter offline) but is general in nature. I posted it here because I happened to be here at the time and have been around long enough to know how the bandwagon effect works.
We have an email address we use to respond to direct and specific issues members (or anyone for that matter) have. If you want a specific answer to a specific question you need to send your question or issue by email to support@s2ki.com (or help@s2ki.com or info@s2ki.com). We can assist you with whatever issue you've got.
Posting in a public forum is not an effective way for us to track, respond to or receive such requests. This is a discussion forum which implies an open conversation that anyone who's got an opinion can become involved in. "Why was my post/topic deleted" is not a talking point. It's a specific question seeking a specific answer which we are more than happy to provide; by email.
Asking "Why was my post/topic deleted?" in this forum is an invitation for everyone to respond with whatever gripe they may have (past, present or future) about moderation decisions; a public calling out of moderators, admins and the site rules and policies and has nothing to do with responding to the issue at hand. There are specific tools made for specific jobs. Forums are for topics seeking input from the population at large. Email and PM are for one-to-one communications.
It is in effect making a scene in an effort to create enough of a stink that we will be forced by way of humiliation into reconsidering or at a minimum justifying publicly the decision that was made. It is a means of coercing a result, it's overkill, it's annoying and it's unnecessary. You don't need to create drama to get what you are looking for, you could just ask. I know what you are doing and I know why you are doing it and I'm saying, publicly and for the record, that's it's going to produce the opposite result. You'll go on my shit list for trying to make my life miserable and my motivation to assist will drop to zero.
Sure if we ignore you or blow you off or give you some BS answer go ahead and kick our asses by posting what assholes we are. I would appreciate it if you'd do that AFTER giving us the chance to resolve your issue first.
You say no, no that's not what I'm implying but but it is in fact what you are saying so I don't think it's unreasonable of me to interpret it that way. For example:
You say you are writing about it, not asking a question but rather telling a story. You aren't mentioning a specific topic but rather topic moderation in general which I read as "one of more moderators is not being fair" or "the rules are unfair or unreasonable". I'm not sure which so I read on.
I'm reading "I don't know the rules" or "I disagree with the rules" so I look to see who the poster is, MacGyver, Gold Member, s2ki age: 4 yrs, 231 days. Well I've read more than one thread from this member of the past 4 years and from past experience I know this is a public complaint right off. I also know he's a Gold Member and I appreciate that so I can't just blow it off, I need to read it. I also know he's been around for a long time so he knows the rules so I can disregard the "fails to educate" bit. In the end I have to conclude this means "deleting a topic or post that I wrote is disrespectful". COMPLAIN.
I read "I'm important. How dare you touch my post!". POSTURE.
The actual question. This part, taken on it's own (save the lack of any specific information about the thread like a link or even the title) is fairly reasonable and warrants a response. ASK QUESTION.
In the final tally I'm reading COMPLAIN, POSTURE, ASK QUESTION. I point this out because in my original reply and in this one what I'm saying is the best way to get a quick and happy result is to say: ASK QUESTION. The COMPLAIN and POSTURE bits only serve to work against you. If you want really good results and maybe even say: COMPLIMENT, ASK QUESTION. I hesitate in mentioning that because it sounds like I'm looking for strokes but that's not true.
When you do decide to ASK QUESTION here are some tips:
1. Make it easy for me. Be specific about what you are looking for. Specific answers to specific questions are quick and easy to provide and are likely going to be handled first. I'll do the easy ones and save the messy ones for later. How long that is depends on how many other things I have to do.
2. If your question is related to something specific, like a topic, post or PM then make it easy for me to find. Provide me with a link so all I need to do to research the answer is click and read. If you don't have one then try to be as specific as possible what, where, when. This leads to #1 above.
3. Use the right tool. Don't post specific questions here. Use the support email address ( you can click the link at the top of the topic list in this forum). Using the email address will ensure we see the question in a timely fashion and allow us to track it through to completion. It saves the lengthy public discussion and the distraction of having to read a $1.50 worth of opinions. Again, leads to #1.
There you have it. You CAN have quick and satisfactory answers to your concerns and I can really love providing them. We can all be happy but it's needs to start on the right footing.
06-14-2005, 11:34 AM
#32
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[QUOTE=JsAP1,Jun 1 2005, 12:43 PM] [QUOTE=cthree @ May 26 2005, 03:35 PM]
This isn't specifically related to the thread but has general relevance.
In the course of administrating the site, including moderation, decisions are going to be made, actions taken and things done by the nearly 100 moderators who volunteer their time to make the community a good one. That's a fact of life and will not change. There are several thousand people who come to s2ki and post messages EVERY DAY, 24/7/365. That's something on the order of 7000 posts per day in almost 100 forums. There is more going on than your one thread of conversation.
You really need to understand this so when you make a query about a particular topic and a decision that was made it doesn't sound as if nothing is going on around you and your thread is the most significant thing going on around here.
In almost every case simply asking about something is all that is required to get an answer or explanation. Let me give you an example of a true story from just this morning:
At 9AM my phone rings and it's a member who is incensed about something or other. He starts out telling me that he's calling to let me know his lawyer is going to send me some documents and such related to a slander suit he's going to file yadda yadda.
Now what do you think my reaction to this is? Well I'll tell you. It's f*** off. Yes that's right. I'm not going to offer any help whatsoever. When my puppy screams bloody murder I turn my back and ignore him.
On the other hand if somebody calls me up and says "hey man I love your site but I have a problem I'm hoping you can help me with" then they get a totally different response. My reaction is "of course I'll help you in any way I can".
See the difference? Now you can take this as me scolding you and you may or you can take it as a little hint, a little nugget of info about how to motive me to work my ass of for you. I'm a real sucker for helping people who seem to need help and it makes me feel good to know I helped someone out. That's why I do it.
Here's another illustration:
you: "Hey my thread was removed and I don't know why. Can you have a look and let me know?"
me: "Sure I'll look at it right now."
you: "My thread was removed and I demand an explanation. I pay you and expect you to correct this right now!"
me: "Hmm, my car sure could use another coat of wax..."
You pay me and I appreciate it but if you treat me like garbage you'll wish you hadn't. It's not just me. Nobody I know is going to be motivated to do anything for anyone who asks by first demanding respect followed by insults and put-downs. Hell even my dog won't listen to me if the first thing I do is whack him over the head with a newspaper.
A little psych 101 for ya in case you skipped that class. In all honesty I couldn't give a rat's bottom about your thread, I probably didn't even know it existed in the first place. It's one of many hundreds of thousands, a drop in the bucket. I could care, I might even want to read it or spend the next 15 or 20 minutes of my life fixing it so it's not in the dumpster anymore, if properly motivated. You can start by posting a link to it so I know WTH you are talking about.
Now where's that wax gotten to...
This isn't specifically related to the thread but has general relevance.
In the course of administrating the site, including moderation, decisions are going to be made, actions taken and things done by the nearly 100 moderators who volunteer their time to make the community a good one. That's a fact of life and will not change. There are several thousand people who come to s2ki and post messages EVERY DAY, 24/7/365. That's something on the order of 7000 posts per day in almost 100 forums. There is more going on than your one thread of conversation.
You really need to understand this so when you make a query about a particular topic and a decision that was made it doesn't sound as if nothing is going on around you and your thread is the most significant thing going on around here.
In almost every case simply asking about something is all that is required to get an answer or explanation. Let me give you an example of a true story from just this morning:
At 9AM my phone rings and it's a member who is incensed about something or other. He starts out telling me that he's calling to let me know his lawyer is going to send me some documents and such related to a slander suit he's going to file yadda yadda.
Now what do you think my reaction to this is? Well I'll tell you. It's f*** off. Yes that's right. I'm not going to offer any help whatsoever. When my puppy screams bloody murder I turn my back and ignore him.
On the other hand if somebody calls me up and says "hey man I love your site but I have a problem I'm hoping you can help me with" then they get a totally different response. My reaction is "of course I'll help you in any way I can".
See the difference? Now you can take this as me scolding you and you may or you can take it as a little hint, a little nugget of info about how to motive me to work my ass of for you. I'm a real sucker for helping people who seem to need help and it makes me feel good to know I helped someone out. That's why I do it.
Here's another illustration:
you: "Hey my thread was removed and I don't know why. Can you have a look and let me know?"
me: "Sure I'll look at it right now."
you: "My thread was removed and I demand an explanation. I pay you and expect you to correct this right now!"
me: "Hmm, my car sure could use another coat of wax..."
You pay me and I appreciate it but if you treat me like garbage you'll wish you hadn't. It's not just me. Nobody I know is going to be motivated to do anything for anyone who asks by first demanding respect followed by insults and put-downs. Hell even my dog won't listen to me if the first thing I do is whack him over the head with a newspaper.
A little psych 101 for ya in case you skipped that class. In all honesty I couldn't give a rat's bottom about your thread, I probably didn't even know it existed in the first place. It's one of many hundreds of thousands, a drop in the bucket. I could care, I might even want to read it or spend the next 15 or 20 minutes of my life fixing it so it's not in the dumpster anymore, if properly motivated. You can start by posting a link to it so I know WTH you are talking about.
Now where's that wax gotten to...
06-14-2005, 11:56 AM
#33
Registered User
Wow a little late. We took care of this already. I was right and so was Cthree.
BTW it had happened more than once but you did not know that and could not understand my post.
Some things that get out of hand need to be addressed. If you can't see that then like Yoda in Star Wars said "Much to learn you still have"!!!!!!!
Think about it.
06-14-2005, 02:05 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by JsAP1,Jun 14 2005, 01:56 PM
Wow a little late. We took care of this already. I was right and so was Cthree.
BTW it had happened more than once but you did not know that and could not understand my post.
Some things that get out of hand need to be addressed. If you can't see that then like Yoda in Star Wars said "Much to learn you still have"!!!!!!!
Think about it.
BTW it had happened more than once but you did not know that and could not understand my post.
Some things that get out of hand need to be addressed. If you can't see that then like Yoda in Star Wars said "Much to learn you still have"!!!!!!!
Think about it.
Again, I'm sorry if I overstepped my bounds and I'm glad you guys got it worked out.
Drive Safe,
Steve R.
