first track day
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: coventry, UK
first track day
not to beat around the bush; it could of gone better!
trackday itself was at Abingdon Airfield and the event was well ran - friendly staff and also courteous drivers. plenty of metal there too; mk1 escort, a pair of old alfas (dont know the model; http://www.alfaholics.com/ first image), a cossy with s/cut gearbox, and it seemed to be over run by the VXR brigade.
one of them poxhall monaros turned up too - lurvely noise, im sure soulcrew will be along shortly to backup that statement
hundreds of caterams & similar, of various models. the v8 and bike engined (hyabusa?) cars certainly stood out from the rest.
i'd definately go again.
so what made it not as good as it could be? S2000's god awful brakes. rear caliper decided to start to seize mid-morning, so i got some track time in between 9 - 11am. by 11 it started to show signs of brake fade (which showed itself as either boiled fluid or lack of braking efficiency), so i left it to cool off for an hour, despite giving it 15-20 on the track, 20 mins cool down. by 1.30pm i decided that was game over so regretfully left.
i tried it again after lunch, and got a god awful noise like metal on metal. i thought something was adrift on the second to last run i had, as i was getting very slight pulling depending on surface.
whats annoying is i only fitted the brakes 12months ago (6k miles) and im now going to have to replace the rear. front wear seems excessive, but not knackered. it is like someone has just sprayed shreded brake pad material over my alloys though; not the usual fine brake dust. it's actually fairly loose.
new rear brakes ordered, and a caliper.
could of been worse i guess.... some guys car shed some metal heat shields around the track (I think something caused it), and the insignia VXR had something terminal with engine.
trackday itself was at Abingdon Airfield and the event was well ran - friendly staff and also courteous drivers. plenty of metal there too; mk1 escort, a pair of old alfas (dont know the model; http://www.alfaholics.com/ first image), a cossy with s/cut gearbox, and it seemed to be over run by the VXR brigade.
one of them poxhall monaros turned up too - lurvely noise, im sure soulcrew will be along shortly to backup that statement
hundreds of caterams & similar, of various models. the v8 and bike engined (hyabusa?) cars certainly stood out from the rest.
i'd definately go again.
so what made it not as good as it could be? S2000's god awful brakes. rear caliper decided to start to seize mid-morning, so i got some track time in between 9 - 11am. by 11 it started to show signs of brake fade (which showed itself as either boiled fluid or lack of braking efficiency), so i left it to cool off for an hour, despite giving it 15-20 on the track, 20 mins cool down. by 1.30pm i decided that was game over so regretfully left.
i tried it again after lunch, and got a god awful noise like metal on metal. i thought something was adrift on the second to last run i had, as i was getting very slight pulling depending on surface.
whats annoying is i only fitted the brakes 12months ago (6k miles) and im now going to have to replace the rear. front wear seems excessive, but not knackered. it is like someone has just sprayed shreded brake pad material over my alloys though; not the usual fine brake dust. it's actually fairly loose.
new rear brakes ordered, and a caliper.
could of been worse i guess.... some guys car shed some metal heat shields around the track (I think something caused it), and the insignia VXR had something terminal with engine.
Former Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,771
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From: Stanmore
Metal on metal means you've worn out your pads - that's the early warning noise.
What pads and fluid are you using?
Did you have some instruction?
Lots of stuff about brakes in the track day FAQ https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/582...k-day-faq-v03/ which may be of use if you decide to go again.
Was it at least fun while you were out there?
What pads and fluid are you using?
Did you have some instruction?
Lots of stuff about brakes in the track day FAQ https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/582...k-day-faq-v03/ which may be of use if you decide to go again.
Was it at least fun while you were out there?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,714
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From: coventry, UK
hell of alot of fun; i was impressed by the pace of the s2000. seemed to be pulling away from a few of the caterhams through the corners... caterham slowly caught on on the straights though. must of been a nervous driver as the other caterhams were a rather fast!
brakes are standard BI.
fluid, is regular dot4. fluid was changed 12months ago aswell (i did full change; discs, pads, front caliper and full fluid change)
metal on metal; i've obviously had a sticking caliper - as thats the side that has now stuck more and worn out. the rest of them look like they've had double the mileage though! not what i'd expect 6k city miles to show (about 75% worn!)
instruction no - i was debating it come the afternoon, aswell as logging the circuit on android 'my tracks' and possibly a video. alas, that didnt go to plan.
i did read through that thread last night - some useful stuff in there.
brakes are standard BI.
fluid, is regular dot4. fluid was changed 12months ago aswell (i did full change; discs, pads, front caliper and full fluid change)
metal on metal; i've obviously had a sticking caliper - as thats the side that has now stuck more and worn out. the rest of them look like they've had double the mileage though! not what i'd expect 6k city miles to show (about 75% worn!)
instruction no - i was debating it come the afternoon, aswell as logging the circuit on android 'my tracks' and possibly a video. alas, that didnt go to plan.
i did read through that thread last night - some useful stuff in there.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 588
Likes: 4
From: West Sussex
It does sound like you got to the end of the pads. Thin pads are more prone to overheating anyway (less material to soak up the heat) and transmit more heat to the calliper which won't help its stickiness.
I had a slightly sticky front calliper which a track day at Brands in August turned into a very sticky calliper! Good job refurb callipers are cheap and easy to fit.
When you've got it all apart you might want to think about either Motul RBF or ATE Super Blue for the fluid both of which resist heat well. I'm on Super Blue at the moment because it's half the price of RBF. It's also blue (!) which makes it easy to tell when you've bled it through. It's not a bad idea to change the fluid annually anyway especially if you plan on tracking more.
I had a slightly sticky front calliper which a track day at Brands in August turned into a very sticky calliper! Good job refurb callipers are cheap and easy to fit.
When you've got it all apart you might want to think about either Motul RBF or ATE Super Blue for the fluid both of which resist heat well. I'm on Super Blue at the moment because it's half the price of RBF. It's also blue (!) which makes it easy to tell when you've bled it through. It's not a bad idea to change the fluid annually anyway especially if you plan on tracking more.
Former Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,771
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From: Stanmore
brakes are standard BI.
fluid, is regular dot4. fluid was changed 12months ago aswell (i did full change; discs, pads, front caliper and full fluid change)
metal on metal; i've obviously had a sticking caliper - as thats the side that has now stuck more and worn out. the rest of them look like they've had double the mileage though! not what i'd expect 6k city miles to show (about 75% worn!)
instruction no - i was debating it come the afternoon, aswell as logging the circuit on android 'my tracks' and possibly a video. alas, that didnt go to plan.
i did read through that thread last night - some useful stuff in there.
fluid, is regular dot4. fluid was changed 12months ago aswell (i did full change; discs, pads, front caliper and full fluid change)
metal on metal; i've obviously had a sticking caliper - as thats the side that has now stuck more and worn out. the rest of them look like they've had double the mileage though! not what i'd expect 6k city miles to show (about 75% worn!)
instruction no - i was debating it come the afternoon, aswell as logging the circuit on android 'my tracks' and possibly a video. alas, that didnt go to plan.
i did read through that thread last night - some useful stuff in there.
Next time, get some instruction - i'll probably help you be kinder to your brakes as well.
Also, check out this App https://market.android.com/search?q=...er&so=1&c=apps which is great for recording track days.
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Frustration
Besides, it matters not who or what you were chasing, just that you were chasing something!
Airfield are a good place to learn the limits of your car. Nowehere else I would be doing 110mph and think 'Sod it, full throttle and see what happens'. I span BTW
Get you brakes replaced and you'll be fine. Rear calipers are crap, so get them both replaced and then you know where you are.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: coventry, UK
brakes already on order; arriving on monday - rear discs, pads, replacement caliper and a new shim kit, just to be sure that anything that could be causing the pads to stick is no longer there.
hopefully the fronts will last a few months; i can then look at something else than the BI stuff as i do want to see a few more track days in the S.
right now, i just need the get the car sorted as cost efficiently & quickly as possible - a few unexpected and forgotten bills this month/next month. one of which is the insurance!
as for last nights drive home, looks like you were right LG - i think their on the squealers and not metal on metal.
i've heard squealers before, but this didnt sound quite right. brakes applied and noise goes away, so it stands a good chance of low pads being the problem here.
hopefully the fronts will last a few months; i can then look at something else than the BI stuff as i do want to see a few more track days in the S.
right now, i just need the get the car sorted as cost efficiently & quickly as possible - a few unexpected and forgotten bills this month/next month. one of which is the insurance!
as for last nights drive home, looks like you were right LG - i think their on the squealers and not metal on metal.
i've heard squealers before, but this didnt sound quite right. brakes applied and noise goes away, so it stands a good chance of low pads being the problem here.
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From: Frustration
It is a shame you don't play GT5 with a wheel - it'd help you loads!
Brakes wise, what I assume you are doing is spending too long on the brakes. Trying to be kind, you are overheating them.
Airfields are usually long straights with chicaines so you can absolutely hammer the brake pedal and scrub off as much speed as possible in as short of a time as possible.
You'll find your brakes won't overheat and you'll be a lot faster.
As for tuition...yeah, get some eventually, but I wouldn't bother at the moment. Learn the car and evolve at your own pace.
People badger on about being all nice and smooth. All well and good and it is where you want to be at EVENTUALLY, but if you start out aggressive and wind back, you'll appreciate it more. That and you'll learn car control whilst your at it.
Brakes wise, what I assume you are doing is spending too long on the brakes. Trying to be kind, you are overheating them.
Airfields are usually long straights with chicaines so you can absolutely hammer the brake pedal and scrub off as much speed as possible in as short of a time as possible.
You'll find your brakes won't overheat and you'll be a lot faster.
As for tuition...yeah, get some eventually, but I wouldn't bother at the moment. Learn the car and evolve at your own pace.
People badger on about being all nice and smooth. All well and good and it is where you want to be at EVENTUALLY, but if you start out aggressive and wind back, you'll appreciate it more. That and you'll learn car control whilst your at it.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,112
Likes: 2
From: Banbury, Oxfordshire
What makes you so sure the rear was sticking?
Sounds like the classic S2000 problem: the fronts fade and then you utterly crucify the rears without realising it. And you'll be pressing the pedal harder to make something happen, which puts more heat into the fluid.
Sounds like the classic S2000 problem: the fronts fade and then you utterly crucify the rears without realising it. And you'll be pressing the pedal harder to make something happen, which puts more heat into the fluid.
Former Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,771
Likes: 311
From: Stanmore
It is a shame you don't play GT5 with a wheel - it'd help you loads!
Brakes wise, what I assume you are doing is spending too long on the brakes. Trying to be kind, you are overheating them.
Airfields are usually long straights with chicaines so you can absolutely hammer the brake pedal and scrub off as much speed as possible in as short of a time as possible.
You'll find your brakes won't overheat and you'll be a lot faster.
As for tuition...yeah, get some eventually, but I wouldn't bother at the moment. Learn the car and evolve at your own pace.
People badger on about being all nice and smooth. All well and good and it is where you want to be at EVENTUALLY, but if you start out aggressive and wind back, you'll appreciate it more. That and you'll learn car control whilst your at it.
Brakes wise, what I assume you are doing is spending too long on the brakes. Trying to be kind, you are overheating them.
Airfields are usually long straights with chicaines so you can absolutely hammer the brake pedal and scrub off as much speed as possible in as short of a time as possible.
You'll find your brakes won't overheat and you'll be a lot faster.
As for tuition...yeah, get some eventually, but I wouldn't bother at the moment. Learn the car and evolve at your own pace.
People badger on about being all nice and smooth. All well and good and it is where you want to be at EVENTUALLY, but if you start out aggressive and wind back, you'll appreciate it more. That and you'll learn car control whilst your at it.
Brakes-wise, it's the cheapo pads, as reported by others who have used the BI items.
Abingdon's layout is not like most airfield days, it's actually more circuit-like, so your hypothesis doesn't hold I'm afraid.
Tuition is IMO essential for most noobs. Most people don't know how to steer properly, let alone manage their braking correctly. Everyone I know who's been on a trackday has said they couldn't believe how much better and more fun it was after they had some instruction.
FWIW - here's the aLapHD video: https://www.s2ki.com/...st__p__20960232