Turtle

Has anyone in the UK/Europe bought the Helms service manual?

The US guys seem to sware by it, but I've 2 concerns:

- How different UK spec cars are.
- Is it worth the cost? (Helms are happy to ship to the UK, but the total cost is ~$170US. That's ~

awinskill

Add it to the cost of all the upgrades!

So when are the braided lines going in?

Know any brake disk/pad upgrades?

Turtle

From reading a lot on the US forums my concensus is:

- Brakes lines are a minor improvement if your car is quite new. The stock Honda lines are very good.
- The stock brake fluid isn't great. Changing brake fluid does help.
- Cooling helps a great deal. I'm looking at various ducts, but I'm not sure if I'm going to do this yet.
- Disks. Not really needed. People are getting great results from just fluid/pad changes, with ducts really helping on the track.
- Bigger brakes. Doesn't seem warrented. Yes the Honda caliper is only a single piston, but it seems up to the task. The standard brake setup is as good at stopping distances, but fade prone under heavy use. The Brembo kit has a brake balance problem, and you need bigger wheels.
- Pads. I haven't looked at UK pads. There are a lot of alternatives. I think Ferodo, Mintex, and Pagid all either have pads now, or are on the way. (I haven't got the pad info to hand.). I'm looking into this a bit more as I don't want pads that are hard on the stock disks.

I won't be doing anything for a while - I need to bed the stock disks and rotors in first.

Currently I'm thinking lines/fluid/pad/duct.

-Brian.

awinskill

I looked at how I could make some duct's (taking inspiration from that new AWM company on the block..... )

To prevent cutting the wheel arch liner the duct would have to curve into the engine bay and then back out. This has a number of advantages in that you'd get almost direct access to the rotor/disk from the back. However, to get the best airflow I think you'd probably be better off ducting from infront of the raidiator!

What really surprised me was that the rear disks aren't vented

When I was having my alloys changed I noticed that the front pads were dragging slightly on the front disks...... I'd heard a noise from the front for a while which sounded like the wheel barings. My guess is that it's the pads........ Is this normal/common?

Andy

AnDy_PaNdY

I hear their consultancy fees are very reasonable

Turtle

Ducts is interesting. Taking out the dummy vents from the bumper, cutting the wheel well liner, and adding a duct should be good.

There's some nice carbon fibre ones available in the US.

Example:

BulletProof

However this isn't a very good duct....

I have a big interest in RC model aircraft - including ducted fans. Now the ducted fan guys have done a lot of research into low pressure air flow in ducts. To get the most thrust from a ducted fan you need to follow constant area ruling. This means that as the duct changes shape, you need to maintain the same cross sectional area. If you don't you get pressure waves, and the total trust from the ducted fan is far lower. There are a lot of other factors involved, but this is a major factor. Now if you look at the Bulletproof ducts, they appear to taper too much. So they won't move as much air as they could. I might even layup my own ducts.

Rear brakes - don't worry about them not being vented. The rear's only do a very smal amount of the braking.

One thing that can cause the drag/noise from the front disks is the packing grease behind the pad. If it's normal stuff it can cook after a track session. You can get higher spec grease designed to take the extra heat.

If in doubt, ask your friendly Honda mechanic, or buy the Helms manual and do it yourself . Then you can telll me if the manual was worth the money

-Brian.

steve_the_greek

Not quite true. I destroyed my rear pads in one airfield day. The fronts are still only 50% worn.

Steve

awinskill

I'll definately be putting a better brake fluid in during the coming service (18K ) and I really wanted the dealer to fit the lines at the same time.....

The noise from the front has always been there so I've always put it down to a high performance car thing.... (I'm sure you'll agree Brian that after the ITR you hear all kinds of noises you wouldn't hear in other cars - like driving over a stone at 80mph and thinking your A/C unit had fallen off! )

I've got to admit that I was surprised to find the brakes suffered from fade after a couple of hot laps. Admitedly there were two 110 -> 40 mph straights.....

Now how to justify the full Mugen system to my Accountant... (she who must be obeyed.... )

Turtle

Steve_the_greek - do you have any other brake problems?

I'm suprised that you destroyed the rear pads...

Did you investigate? Or have any problems with braking on the track?

I'm not disputing this.. it just worries me a little. If you'd half your front pads left isn't it likely to be a brake bias problem?



Hmmm...

Andy - my ITR's blissfully quiet.. well most people would agree, except the Police Officer who pulled me yesterday . (Apparantly some bank-holiday-crawler driver had phoned the Police on a mobile after I'd VTec'ed past. The Policeman was friendly enough and agreed that my car was road legal. He as interested in the car as well. Still annoying - there were lots of biker's doing insane speeds, but I Vtec past a few people going well below the 60mph limit in clear conditions on a good road... ...) After getting on my way again a ways, I went on a 'bring vtec to the masses mission' and never got above 3rd...

At the end of the day I need to fill up with petrol and I don't notice the little noises on my ITR. You can't when you're above 6000rpm!

-Brian.

awinskill

Brian

I'm sure you'll get a good price for that stock pile of ear plugs!

I was *really* surprised that the S2K was quieter than the ITR. Oh well, Mugen it'll have to be

Andy