Might be joining the fold
03-15-2011, 03:00 PM
#1
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Might be joining the fold
Hey guys,
I'm not sure if it's just me but insurance quotes have dropped like a stone for S2000's so I'm starting to consider a change from my Civic Type R
Think it's got something to do with (almost) being 24. I guess this is the only upside to be old(ish).
I'm obviously considering the alternatives as well (Z4, 350Z, Boxster) but now insurance has sorted itself out the S2000 is back in the running (it was formally twice the price of everything else mentioned). I'm thinking the S2k will be the one of choice as should give better fuel economy, about even tax, roughly similar servicing costs and generally be a bit cheaper to own. I'm also not buying into them throwing you off the road, if it's raining I'll just stay out of vtec which should eliminate half the problem. The remainder should hopefully be mitigated by fitting decent tyres and having the geo done properly.
I'm a bit stuck now as to what I want! Was initially thinking something from around 2004 so it's got the facelift front end and the revised suspension/anti-roll bars although pound for pound I can't help but think the earlier cars are a better buy. Also can't decide between JDM or UKDM. On the earlier cars at least the JDM's seem to be in brighter colours (yellow, white) and inevitably the underside will have withstood the test of time slightly better. Nothing from 06 onwards as the tax is hurtful!
So I may be joining you guys basically is the sum of the above, would be interested in any advice you've got on which models are the best buys. I've already trawled the FAQ's. Am I allowed to start the debate as to which looks better, facelift or pre facelift?
Cheers
I'm not sure if it's just me but insurance quotes have dropped like a stone for S2000's so I'm starting to consider a change from my Civic Type R
Think it's got something to do with (almost) being 24. I guess this is the only upside to be old(ish).I'm obviously considering the alternatives as well (Z4, 350Z, Boxster) but now insurance has sorted itself out the S2000 is back in the running (it was formally twice the price of everything else mentioned). I'm thinking the S2k will be the one of choice as should give better fuel economy, about even tax, roughly similar servicing costs and generally be a bit cheaper to own. I'm also not buying into them throwing you off the road, if it's raining I'll just stay out of vtec which should eliminate half the problem. The remainder should hopefully be mitigated by fitting decent tyres and having the geo done properly.
I'm a bit stuck now as to what I want! Was initially thinking something from around 2004 so it's got the facelift front end and the revised suspension/anti-roll bars although pound for pound I can't help but think the earlier cars are a better buy. Also can't decide between JDM or UKDM. On the earlier cars at least the JDM's seem to be in brighter colours (yellow, white) and inevitably the underside will have withstood the test of time slightly better. Nothing from 06 onwards as the tax is hurtful!
So I may be joining you guys basically is the sum of the above, would be interested in any advice you've got on which models are the best buys. I've already trawled the FAQ's. Am I allowed to start the debate as to which looks better, facelift or pre facelift?
Cheers
03-15-2011, 03:28 PM
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I own a MY99 UKDM and I prefer its looks over the facelift model.
The older cars look more aggressive. The newer ones have better looking tailpipes and alloys.
Each to their own I guess.
The cars a real hoot to drive though. On Sat night I nearly crashed driving "normally" with a ugly ugly twitch, today driving mediumly aggressive I pulled off a mighty fine back end out roundabout exit
Its a myth about the wet + S2000's killing you. 99.9% of the time it will be driver error. I have always driven sensibly in the rain and never had a single issue.
The older cars look more aggressive. The newer ones have better looking tailpipes and alloys.
Each to their own I guess.
The cars a real hoot to drive though. On Sat night I nearly crashed driving "normally" with a ugly ugly twitch, today driving mediumly aggressive I pulled off a mighty fine back end out roundabout exit
Its a myth about the wet + S2000's killing you. 99.9% of the time it will be driver error. I have always driven sensibly in the rain and never had a single issue.
03-15-2011, 10:52 PM
#3
I'm biased, but I believe the s2 peaked in 2002 with a berlina black model with half Red interior :-)
Others know this, they just choose to hide behind a smokescreen of blues, greys and silvers ;-)
Just kidding. On I have driven a few early ones and an 05 and all the early ones have felt a little 'edgier'. Some of it may be psychological, but they just felt more responsive.
On the flipside, as others have said the later cars have more attractive wheels (IMO) but I am completely indifferent to the body changes through the years.
I have an oem lip, front bumper all smoothed and an oem 'bump' spoiler on the boot and I think it has fine lines, but that's just me.
You seem to be reasonably well informed about the s2 anyhow. And whichever one you go for it'll always pay to check for seized geo adjusters, excessive roof wear or the obvious engine troubles. Being a honda owner already means you should already be aware of oil usage, and the f20's TCT (timing chain tensioner) often presents itself as a 'problem' (although in some cases it can be fixed for free).
Well, I certainly do go on! Test drive a few, and dont be British when you haggle for price, bargains are out there!
Others know this, they just choose to hide behind a smokescreen of blues, greys and silvers ;-)
Just kidding. On I have driven a few early ones and an 05 and all the early ones have felt a little 'edgier'. Some of it may be psychological, but they just felt more responsive.
On the flipside, as others have said the later cars have more attractive wheels (IMO) but I am completely indifferent to the body changes through the years.
I have an oem lip, front bumper all smoothed and an oem 'bump' spoiler on the boot and I think it has fine lines, but that's just me.
You seem to be reasonably well informed about the s2 anyhow. And whichever one you go for it'll always pay to check for seized geo adjusters, excessive roof wear or the obvious engine troubles. Being a honda owner already means you should already be aware of oil usage, and the f20's TCT (timing chain tensioner) often presents itself as a 'problem' (although in some cases it can be fixed for free).
Well, I certainly do go on! Test drive a few, and dont be British when you haggle for price, bargains are out there!
03-16-2011, 04:51 AM
#4
DO IT, GO ON DO IT!
Have you just passed a segnificant milestone in the age department or moved to a nicer climate? All sorts of things can affect how much you pay for insurance.
Have you just passed a segnificant milestone in the age department or moved to a nicer climate? All sorts of things can affect how much you pay for insurance.
03-16-2011, 04:54 AM
#5
Insurance aside, I think in reality the day to day running costs of an S2K would be significantly cheaper than the alternatives you mention.
For me 04+ was a big step in looks, but i hear suffered a little in the 'feel'. It seems best bet is to get the latest rev you can stretch with some 09's out there for £15k now you will get the best of the bunch. Or 5k for an early car, but as any performance 'oldie' it could have some big bills lined up.
you pay your money and take your choice!
Good luck and most of all enjoy!
For me 04+ was a big step in looks, but i hear suffered a little in the 'feel'. It seems best bet is to get the latest rev you can stretch with some 09's out there for £15k now you will get the best of the bunch. Or 5k for an early car, but as any performance 'oldie' it could have some big bills lined up.
you pay your money and take your choice!
Good luck and most of all enjoy!
03-16-2011, 12:09 PM
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Alright guys, cheers for the responses.
I agree with you all on alloys, I don't like the pre-facelift five spokers!
I'll be wary of the hood having wear, if I remember correctly it's up in the 'corner' near where the mechanism folds. I'll make a sleeve as suggested somewhere out of velcro or similar. I've noticed a lot of the older cars (the tidier looking ones) have had the hood replaced and usually with glass screen so hopefully this is something I can avoid.
When you say you had a back end 'twitch' while driving normally, how do you mean? I'm hoping that the other half can drive it to about whenever required too. She's not a good driver but never thrashes the cars (never had my Civic into vtec
). Due to the torque levels I'm of the opinion that the car should be fine out of vtec in most conditions and should grip regardless in the dry. I stand to be corrected by you lot though..?
I've been looking a bit into the tax brackets. What are the cut offs? I don't want to be paying £400 a year and would prefer to avoid the age bracket that has not been set yet (currently pre-06 I think but not sure what ages this captures?) I'd be temped to get an early car to avoid this as they're fundamentally the same. Also I'm not afraid of modifying my cars so coilovers/better anti roll bars/decent wheels are all options I'm not afraid to explore.
I agree with you all on alloys, I don't like the pre-facelift five spokers!
I'll be wary of the hood having wear, if I remember correctly it's up in the 'corner' near where the mechanism folds. I'll make a sleeve as suggested somewhere out of velcro or similar. I've noticed a lot of the older cars (the tidier looking ones) have had the hood replaced and usually with glass screen so hopefully this is something I can avoid.
When you say you had a back end 'twitch' while driving normally, how do you mean? I'm hoping that the other half can drive it to about whenever required too. She's not a good driver but never thrashes the cars (never had my Civic into vtec
). Due to the torque levels I'm of the opinion that the car should be fine out of vtec in most conditions and should grip regardless in the dry. I stand to be corrected by you lot though..?I've been looking a bit into the tax brackets. What are the cut offs? I don't want to be paying £400 a year and would prefer to avoid the age bracket that has not been set yet (currently pre-06 I think but not sure what ages this captures?) I'd be temped to get an early car to avoid this as they're fundamentally the same. Also I'm not afraid of modifying my cars so coilovers/better anti roll bars/decent wheels are all options I'm not afraid to explore.
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03-16-2011, 03:08 PM
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Haha, I think that might be just a bit out of budget 
Another thing I'm conscious about is I don't know anything about the engine really (F20?). Can anyone give me a run through of the pros and cons (including major issues) associated with this unit? I've read on some Civic forums people saying the S2000's are prone to engine failure but IIRC this is limited to later cars?
Another thing I'm conscious about is I don't know anything about the engine really (F20?). Can anyone give me a run through of the pros and cons (including major issues) associated with this unit? I've read on some Civic forums people saying the S2000's are prone to engine failure but IIRC this is limited to later cars?
03-16-2011, 03:56 PM
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There were a few engine failures on the 09 cars but the older cars seem most reliable, like a Honda!
The older cars burn oil though. So you have to watch that. Other than that, there is not much to report, its a cracking engine and not a lot goes wrong with them. Sometimes the timing chain tensioner wears out, but that is less than £150 to replace and you could do it yourself.
There have been a few people who have had engine failure on earlier engines, the dreaded knock and spun bearings. As long as you make sure there is oil in the sump and it doesn't make any funky noises than you should be fine. They are pretty solid.
The back end will twitch if you are on hard lock and moving off with a few revs, the lack of torque is a bit of a myth, I think there is plenty of torque for a pretty light car with a 6 speed box with good ratios! The car will pull in any gear, it might complain a little, but it will do it. Good tyres are essential.
Normal driving round town you are unlikely to encounter any problems in the dry, even with pretty lairy driving you have to provoke it as the car is so well balanced. In the wet it is a different kettle of fish though, doesn't take many prisoners in the wet if you drive like a loon, even at low speed, out of VTEC. I spun the car on very wet roads at 10mph because the car aquaplaned I think as I was going round a corner into Tesco. So, don't be too complacent! It will bite.
March 2006 is the tax cut off AFAIK.
The older cars burn oil though. So you have to watch that. Other than that, there is not much to report, its a cracking engine and not a lot goes wrong with them. Sometimes the timing chain tensioner wears out, but that is less than £150 to replace and you could do it yourself.
There have been a few people who have had engine failure on earlier engines, the dreaded knock and spun bearings. As long as you make sure there is oil in the sump and it doesn't make any funky noises than you should be fine. They are pretty solid.
The back end will twitch if you are on hard lock and moving off with a few revs, the lack of torque is a bit of a myth, I think there is plenty of torque for a pretty light car with a 6 speed box with good ratios! The car will pull in any gear, it might complain a little, but it will do it. Good tyres are essential.
Normal driving round town you are unlikely to encounter any problems in the dry, even with pretty lairy driving you have to provoke it as the car is so well balanced. In the wet it is a different kettle of fish though, doesn't take many prisoners in the wet if you drive like a loon, even at low speed, out of VTEC. I spun the car on very wet roads at 10mph because the car aquaplaned I think as I was going round a corner into Tesco. So, don't be too complacent! It will bite.
March 2006 is the tax cut off AFAIK.
03-16-2011, 11:28 PM
#10
^
What he said.
It's not always giving it the full whack that'll see you in a ditch, I think a combination of the short Ish wheelbase, the operation of the diff and predominately erratic driver inputs are responsible for the 'unforgiving' reputation in the wet.
Driver training is a good thing.
Oh, and you mentioned earlier about avoiding the whole plastic window problems altogether by going for one with glass; but it is actually those that suffer from the roof wear the worst. Plastic windows tend to crack, and the fabric at the bottom of the 'b' pillar section can tear over time, but on the glass ones the same 'b' pillar wear can occur, along with the 'above the shoulder' rubbing.
Lizard skin chainstays protectors, roof fabric patches glued on the inside and a tiny bit of filing on the frame corner has kept me out of deep water (or any water touch wood!) so far.
There is also an occasional problem with leaky roof seals above the doors which can drip water as you pull away, but it's often easily and cheaply fixed.
I like to think that Honda built the sexy shape, and the driveline mechanicals; but left the roof to ford or something, because it is, a little bit of a [whispers] weak point.
It's like your missus wanting to go and see a chick flick with you; it's not something you enjoy about the package, but all the rest more than makes up for it.
Unless you don't like ya missus, in which case give her the boot ;-)
What he said.
It's not always giving it the full whack that'll see you in a ditch, I think a combination of the short Ish wheelbase, the operation of the diff and predominately erratic driver inputs are responsible for the 'unforgiving' reputation in the wet.
Driver training is a good thing.
Oh, and you mentioned earlier about avoiding the whole plastic window problems altogether by going for one with glass; but it is actually those that suffer from the roof wear the worst. Plastic windows tend to crack, and the fabric at the bottom of the 'b' pillar section can tear over time, but on the glass ones the same 'b' pillar wear can occur, along with the 'above the shoulder' rubbing.
Lizard skin chainstays protectors, roof fabric patches glued on the inside and a tiny bit of filing on the frame corner has kept me out of deep water (or any water touch wood!) so far.
There is also an occasional problem with leaky roof seals above the doors which can drip water as you pull away, but it's often easily and cheaply fixed.
I like to think that Honda built the sexy shape, and the driveline mechanicals; but left the roof to ford or something, because it is, a little bit of a [whispers] weak point.
It's like your missus wanting to go and see a chick flick with you; it's not something you enjoy about the package, but all the rest more than makes up for it.
Unless you don't like ya missus, in which case give her the boot ;-)