KnowledgeIsPower

looking to hit some track events this year. From some brief searches it seems many tracks/groups require additional safety protection.

So my questions are

1. are there specific groups/tracks that do NOT require protection that are reasonably close to chicago? ( i will not be able to attend any events that occur during the work week ie. test and tune that may have less requirement - all events will have to be weekend oriented)

2. for those that have hard dog roll bar or similar, which specific bar did you get? I was looking at the hard dog with removal diagonal bar. thoughts?

3. if anyone is local to 60118 has a hard dog bar that i can check out that would be great. Im interested in seeing the interior space that is lost by the bar.

Chris S2K

Unless you're interested in participating in HSAX events, you won't need the roll bar. However, you can't put a price tag on your life and it's never a bad idea to spend extra on safety. Further,a roll bar also allows you to properly run a race seat and harness which have other benefits on the track.

I have the HD roll bar with removable harness and diagonal. It retains the OEM roll hoops so it's not quite as hardcore as the HD bar which requires you to gut the interior. The drivers seat slides all the way back so the bar is adequate for taller drivers, but with the diagonal bolted in, it does shorten the seat travel on the passenger side by quite a bit. Passengers over 6ft. tall will be uncomfortable as their knee will be very close to the dash. Also, without the harness bar installed, I have full access to the glove box and secret compartment.

The car is stored away for the winter, but feel free to PM me if you'd like to swing by and check it out.

KnowledgeIsPower

You don't need roll bar for many tracks? Can you give examples? Maybe I'm not looking in right places

ruexp67

Many track day organizers have a specific inclusion for the S2000 because of the factory roll-hoops. It is worth contacting the event organizer to verify their requirements.

I agree that there is no price you shoult put on your own safety. However, it is good to FULLY understand what that involves. A roll bar is meant to work in concert with a race seat, harness AND helmet. If you are driving a car on the street with a roll bar and none of the other components, it is VERY likely that in an accident you would hit your head on the roll bar causeing a concussion, or perhaps worse.

So trading decreased saftey on the street (where you will probably use the car 99% of the time) to improve the safety on the track doesn't really make a lot of sense. If you plan to turn the car into a track-dedicated car where you will spend 75%+ on the track, then I'd strongly consider it.

patinum

I've never had a rollbar and that hasn't stopped be from being stupid busy and poor due to track events. Specifically, the only local organizations that I know of that have a restriction on S2000 roll hoops (iirc) are:

Midwest council - high speed autox events only
BMWCCA track events
Porsche club track events (i think, but those are usually by invite only anyway)

Obviously check with the groups before registering. And none of the local tracks have any specific restrictions.

KnowledgeIsPower

Thanks guys.

Pat, you were exactly the man i was looking to have some input on this thread. I know you are the UMW track whore


For some reason I recall different friends trying to invite me to track days they were attending, all of which i wasnt able to attend due to roll bar restrictions. If you are telling me i can attend various track days throughout the year, I'm in.


Also Pat, you had posted earlier this year on track day schedules. all of those events are s2k friendly without roll bar?


Thanks all

the-moss

For what it's worth BMWCCA and Porsche club are either at or moving towards requiring a cage for open cars.

dpspeed

I agree and disagree with some of these comments.

My experience is that most clubs require a rollbar and sometimes a 2" below the broomstick test. Some may not, but it is just a matter of time before they do...

As far as getting rear-ended, sure it could happen, but if you are going to play on track, my opinion is you MUST have the minimum safety equipment - rollbar is minimum equipment in S200's, Miata's, other verts.

You can read threads here and about 100 on miata.net that play the pros and cons game when it comes to dual purpose cars and rollbars. In the end, you have to get on one side of the fence or the other.

As an instructor, would you ride in an open top car without a rollbar? I wouldn't.

I think it's a good idea to check out the Hard Dog setup and see how you fit around the bar.

Good luck!

sam_spider

Miata does not come stock with roll hoops, I can understand perfectly why a roll bar would be required on them.

The S2000 comes with roll hoops, most other convertibles have no stock/OEM roll over protection at all. Not an equal comparison, IMO and shouldn't generalized into the "vert" category.

ruexp67

It isn't just being rear-ended on the street that you have to worry about. Really, any sufficiently violent collision could cause you to hit your head on the roll bar.

Would I ride along in an S2000 without an after market roll bar at a track event? Yes, I would and have. My first track day was in my S2000, and the instructor rode along with me, without hesitation.

I agree with Sam, the S2000's roll hoops ARE structural and would protect someone in a roll-over, but most convertibles rely on the windshield frame and the trunk, and that is usually not enough IMHO, or in the opinion of the people making the rules. However, it is important to note that they are designed around the 3-point seat belt in the car. The seat belt allows for a passenger to be pushed to the center of the car and down (toward the floor.) A 5-6point harness does not allow for this type of movement, so a taller roll bar is a requirement. So, the bottom line for me is this: I'd ride in a car with the stock safety equipment, or a bar, harnesses and a proper seat. But I wouldn't ride in one without ALL THREE aftermarket safety items and a suitable helmet.

While many organizations are moving to a point where an S2000 cannot track without after market roll-over protection, that isn't the case JUST yet.

In the end, it's important for everyone to decide for themselves. Personally, I wouldn't run a roll bar in a street car for fear of hitting my head on the bar in an accident on the street.

It is also worth discussing with your insurance agent. I have heard that some insurance companies will NOT cover you if your car has a roll cage in it. So it's worth a phone call before installing it.