Hello,
As you all know, the 2004 model had many changes on the previous models 2000-2003, major was the wheels jumped from 16" to 17". Now here's the question: If I have the 2002 model which comes with 16" stock, can I put the 17" wheels model of 2004? I'm sure can, but will it affect anything, in other word did Honda enhance the suspension in the 2004 model to support the 17" wheel, or it's just that they put bigger wheels?

Can anyone have a link to the list of changes between the 2004 and previous models. Technical changes not silly ones like glass rear or clock or you know "gadgets".


Thank you,

 

There were other suspension changes made on AP2's, but the AP1 will handle better with AP2 wheels on it.

 

Will it affect performance though? I only care about the weight, is the AP2 weight heavier and might ruin any part in the AP1 suspension?

Thank you

 

Depends on the tire weight, as well as the tire dynamics.

(begin edit) AP1 wheels weigh the same as AP2 wheels, but the mass on AP2 wheels is placed further out from the center of mass by 1/2 inch, thus making them feel heavier when driving. (end edit)

My 16" tires on my AP1 handle night and day different from my g/f's AP2 tires and wheels on my AP1.

My AP1 tire + wheel weights: front 38lbs, rear 40lbs.
Her AP2 tire + wheel weights: front 42lbs, rear 48lbs.

My wheels are stock AP1, tires are random aftermarkets. Her wheels are stock AP2, OEM RE050's.

I'm sure you can imagine what it feels like going from really lower weight tires on a smaller wheel diameter to much heavier tires on a larger wheel diameter. Not only does the extra weight make a huge difference, but that weight is placed further out toward the edge of the rotating mass (larger wheel).

If you want to go with larger wheels, I'd highly recommend getting wheels that are *lighter* than stock, because even at the same weight, you're going to be slower due to the shift in rotating mass toward the outer edge of the circle.

Driving with stock AP2 wheels and OEM tires felt like driving through molasses on my AP1. Never driven an AP1 with stock tires, so I don't know how much of a difference it would be going to AP2, but let's just say that you'll probably feel it.

 

Thank you
This is exactly what I wanted to hear, you completely answered my question
Do you have AIM or MSN if I ever wanted to chat with you?

 

I put Ap2 v2 wheels on my AP1 2 days ago and weighed both on a very high quality digital shipping scale to see just what the differences in weight between them were.
AP1 fronts w/ stock tires: 40lbs 1 ounce each.
AP2 version 2 fronts with stock tires: 40lbs 3 ounces
Only a 2 ounce difference, and these are balanced with stock model and size tires.

As far as the rears go thugh it is not a fair comparison as the AP2 wheels I purchased have 255-40-17 RE050 run flats on them, so they are a slightly larger tire and are susbtantially heavier as they are the run flat models.
AP1 rears with stock tires: 43lbs 3 ounces
AP2 rears w/ 255-40 run flat: 49lbs exactly.

So I checked bridgestone's site for tire weights as a 6lb increase in the rear is not pleasing to me, and I have no need for a 255 as I am not FI or autcrossing this car now, so the stock 245 size would be more than adequate.
The 245 RE050 tire (non run flat) is listed as 4 lbs lighter than the 255 (also non run flat), and I assume run flats are 1-2 lbs heavier at least.

I am going to purchase the 245-40 RE050's and mount them on the rears. I am expecting the same results as the fronts, that the AP2 rears will only be a few ounces heavier than the AP1 wheels when they are compared using stock tires.

So stock for stock they are nearly identical in weight, choice in tires is where the difference is going to come from between the 2 (brand size etc.)

 

Nice write-up Synchro!

BTW...what tires are on your gf's ap2?

One thing...ap2 and ap1 front wheels weigh almost the same...but the ap2 rears are 2 lb heavier.

Okais...obviously, tire weight plays a big factor in overall wheel/tire weight. Not all tires are created equal where weight is concerned. I have 17" Volks which are a good bit lighter than the oem 16"...but add Azeni 615 tires (very heavy) and the total combo comes out 4lb heaver per wheel.

BTW...Tirerack usually publishes the tire weight on their site...look at tire "specs".

 

Kokikat,
True, I was going to ask Synchro what type of tires he used, because it all depends on the tire as well, since he said first that the wheels weigh the same, and I read somewhere I don't remember that the wheels for AP2 are lighter, but since they are larger when you put tires they balance back to AP1 wheels + tire

Anyway also Synchro answer about the weight , but I'm also concered about whether Honda did enhance the wheels support to support bigger wheels, but if you are saying stock to stock AP1 and AP2 have only couple of ounces difference when it comes to Wheels + Tires, then I don't think it ruin any support or suspension and I don't think they made any changes they just changed the wheels size and look for better look and handling maybe.

Thank you

Guys does anyone of you have AIM or MSN and can give it to me, I would like to live chat with someone has experience in such issues.

 

I don't have AIM or MSN. Don't spend enough time in front of the comp to bother.

But yeah, the wheels weigh pretty much the same. The suspension changes from AP1 to AP2 were done to tame the car and make it easier to drive. However, the wheels will feel different when driving, simply because the wheel mass is located further from the center of rotation.

Tire choice is critical:

Larger rims + heavier tires = massively slower.
Larger rims + equal-weight tires = slightly slower.
Larger rims + lighter tires = possibly equal, possibly a little slower (just depends).

Just the fact of running a larger rim size (even with equal weight) will slow the car down somewhat. In order to maintain similar performance and handling, you'd need to use a *lighter* wheel when stepping up to 17's. The weight, size and mass placement of the wheel/tire combo affects everything from acceleration, to braking, to steering and lateral stability.

Don't get me wrong - I am moving up to 17's myself. I like the look and the rigidity of the shorter sidewall. However, I'm fighting tooth and nail to keep weight down as I go up, because I much prefer the performance and handling of my AP1 over Jenny's AP2.

Oh yeah, and about her tires:
Great grip in the dry. Not too fond of their wet handling. Can't stand the stagger. When I put her wheels on my car for a week, I couldn't toss them back on her car fast enough. Between the higher weight, larger rim diameter and excessive stagger (over 2"!!), they felt horrible on my car. The ability to induce oversteer almost disappeared, cornering felt stiff and awkward, turn-in was gone, and the whole car was much slower. Once I put my wheels and tires back on the car, everything was perfect again. Sure, all of that could have been countered with a change of alignment, but that's not the point. The point is that changing something as critical as your wheels and tires without taking into consideration weight and appropriate tread stagger can totally ruin the handling of your car.

Oh yeah, and her AP2 drove GREAT with my wheels and tires on there. AP2s are fantastic when running much less stagger. AP1s are a bit twitchy, but AP2s are very manageable. I still prefer the twitch, but next time we strap rubber on her car, we're going with non-OEM tire stagger.

 

Thank you, pretty much covered everything I need.
I appreciate it.