Best Track Tire Size
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Stock suspension?
I ran the following combinations last year:
225/50-16F, 245/45-16R Kumho VictoRacers,
205/45-16F, 225/50-16R Kumho Ecsta V700s,
205/45-16F, 245/45-16R Kumho Ecsta V700s
205/50-16F, 245/45-16R Hankook RS-2s
No major complaints other than that with the too-short 205/45's up front I did notice the fronts seemed to be more overworked relative to the rear under max-braking/full-ABS. Not my size choice, those were given to me...
When you ask for suggested brands for track use, do you mean STREET tires or DOT-race tires?
Of the tires I used, the only thing that shocked me more than how quickly I destroyed the rear VictoRacers (~4 track days) was how quickly I destroyed the rear Ecsta's (2 track days)! I get a lot more track mileage out of Hoosiers on my 240Z, but it may just be that the stock AP1 is bloody murder on tires (what with too much rear or too little front roll stiffness, plus too much toe-in with bump in the rear).
Best STREET tires for the track would likely be the Bridgestone RE01R or Dunlop StarSpec. Both only come in stock AP1 sizes, btw.
I ran the following combinations last year:
225/50-16F, 245/45-16R Kumho VictoRacers,
205/45-16F, 225/50-16R Kumho Ecsta V700s,
205/45-16F, 245/45-16R Kumho Ecsta V700s
205/50-16F, 245/45-16R Hankook RS-2s
No major complaints other than that with the too-short 205/45's up front I did notice the fronts seemed to be more overworked relative to the rear under max-braking/full-ABS. Not my size choice, those were given to me...
When you ask for suggested brands for track use, do you mean STREET tires or DOT-race tires?
Of the tires I used, the only thing that shocked me more than how quickly I destroyed the rear VictoRacers (~4 track days) was how quickly I destroyed the rear Ecsta's (2 track days)! I get a lot more track mileage out of Hoosiers on my 240Z, but it may just be that the stock AP1 is bloody murder on tires (what with too much rear or too little front roll stiffness, plus too much toe-in with bump in the rear).
Best STREET tires for the track would likely be the Bridgestone RE01R or Dunlop StarSpec. Both only come in stock AP1 sizes, btw.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 21
From: Salt Lake City, UT
The problem with the RE-01R and the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, is that while they come in OEM fitments (F: 205, R: 225 widths), the OEM S-02's are quite a bit wider in the rear than normal while the fronts are about right. For example, comparing the S-02 to the RE-01R:
Tire: Front Tread Width / Rear Tread Width (rear width increase in % compared to front width)
S-02: 7.1" / 8.5" (+19.7%)
RE-01R: 7.6" / 8.3" (+9.2%)
You can see that the rear S-02's are 19.7% wider than the fronts, whereas the rear RE-01R's are only 9.2% wider than the fronts.
Since you have less stagger, specifically less contact patch in the rear and more contact patch in the front, it may lead to oversteer conditions. Personally, I thought my 2003 was a handful with the S-02 combination, and I am really worried about having less stagger. I don't want to run an aftermarket front sway bar, either.
You can also run a F: 205 and R: 245 to maintain the stagger. You really have only two options from TireRack: The Hankook RS-2 and the Sumitomo HTR-Z.
R-S2: 7.2" / 8.7" (+20.8%)
HTR Z: 7.2" / 8.9" (+23.6%)
These will slightly increase the stagger.
One other option is the new Kumho tire that comes in 265/45R16. Whether that will fit in the rear AP1 wheel is questionable.
I think these are important factors when considering a tire. This has been a source of much frustration for me. IMO, if you really want to increase tire sizes all around, you should invest in a used set of 17" AP2 wheels. Then you can run 215/255 or 225/255 sizes.
Tire: Front Tread Width / Rear Tread Width (rear width increase in % compared to front width)
S-02: 7.1" / 8.5" (+19.7%)
RE-01R: 7.6" / 8.3" (+9.2%)
You can see that the rear S-02's are 19.7% wider than the fronts, whereas the rear RE-01R's are only 9.2% wider than the fronts.
Since you have less stagger, specifically less contact patch in the rear and more contact patch in the front, it may lead to oversteer conditions. Personally, I thought my 2003 was a handful with the S-02 combination, and I am really worried about having less stagger. I don't want to run an aftermarket front sway bar, either.
You can also run a F: 205 and R: 245 to maintain the stagger. You really have only two options from TireRack: The Hankook RS-2 and the Sumitomo HTR-Z.
R-S2: 7.2" / 8.7" (+20.8%)
HTR Z: 7.2" / 8.9" (+23.6%)
These will slightly increase the stagger.
One other option is the new Kumho tire that comes in 265/45R16. Whether that will fit in the rear AP1 wheel is questionable.
I think these are important factors when considering a tire. This has been a source of much frustration for me. IMO, if you really want to increase tire sizes all around, you should invest in a used set of 17" AP2 wheels. Then you can run 215/255 or 225/255 sizes.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Don't get too hung up on published tread width figures and "tread width stagger". The RE01R's in AP1 sizes have been reported to be no more oversteery than stock.
IMO, WAY too much is made out of "tread width stagger" than is warranted, to the point that AP1 owners are actively encouraged to buy inferior tires in order to have 205's up front and 245's in back.
I've run 225F/245R (Watkins Glen and Mosport), 205F/225R (Mont Tremblant), and 205F/245R (Lime Rock) at the track, and honestly there was little to no difference in overall handling demeanor. In fact, the only time I spun was at Lime Rock on 205F/245R.
IMO, better to get OVER published "tread widths" and calculated "tread width stagger" and just run the best tires. For track performance, my money is on the RE01R and Direzza *Spec over the Hankooks (which I know are pretty good tires) or the OEM S02's. And I have to doubt the Sumitomo HTR-Z's suitability for serious track usage given that they are in the Ultra High Performance (as opposed to Max Perf or Extreme Perf) category. In my experience, UHP + track use = chunked tires.
If the S02's were a handful, that does NOT mean that other tires with different profile shape, construction, and compound, with less "tread width stagger", will be MORE of a handful. My understanding is that the S02's have a very stiff sidewall for a street tire, and visually the transition from tread to sidewall is very "square". Both of these could make for an unforgiving tire that transitions from grip to slip very abruptly. I would bet the RE01R and *Spec tires both are more forgiving at the limit, while also giving greater ultimate grip.
There is a LOT more to a tire's ultimate grip capability and handling demeanor than a published "tread width" number!
Have no fear buying the best tires for the AP1 in stock sizes, despite prophecies of the end of the world due to loss of "tread width stagger".
IMO, WAY too much is made out of "tread width stagger" than is warranted, to the point that AP1 owners are actively encouraged to buy inferior tires in order to have 205's up front and 245's in back.
I've run 225F/245R (Watkins Glen and Mosport), 205F/225R (Mont Tremblant), and 205F/245R (Lime Rock) at the track, and honestly there was little to no difference in overall handling demeanor. In fact, the only time I spun was at Lime Rock on 205F/245R.
IMO, better to get OVER published "tread widths" and calculated "tread width stagger" and just run the best tires. For track performance, my money is on the RE01R and Direzza *Spec over the Hankooks (which I know are pretty good tires) or the OEM S02's. And I have to doubt the Sumitomo HTR-Z's suitability for serious track usage given that they are in the Ultra High Performance (as opposed to Max Perf or Extreme Perf) category. In my experience, UHP + track use = chunked tires.
If the S02's were a handful, that does NOT mean that other tires with different profile shape, construction, and compound, with less "tread width stagger", will be MORE of a handful. My understanding is that the S02's have a very stiff sidewall for a street tire, and visually the transition from tread to sidewall is very "square". Both of these could make for an unforgiving tire that transitions from grip to slip very abruptly. I would bet the RE01R and *Spec tires both are more forgiving at the limit, while also giving greater ultimate grip.
There is a LOT more to a tire's ultimate grip capability and handling demeanor than a published "tread width" number!
Have no fear buying the best tires for the AP1 in stock sizes, despite prophecies of the end of the world due to loss of "tread width stagger".
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 5
From: Myrtle Beach
Wow, guys thanks for the fast response!
I just wanted to know the widest size tires (biggest contact patch) that could fit on the wheels, while maintaining a good stagger. The reason I'd like to go with tires for the OEM 16" wheels is because tire prices would be cheaper than ones for 17" wheels. I'd like to put some R-Comps on but would like the best bargin.
I just wanted to know the widest size tires (biggest contact patch) that could fit on the wheels, while maintaining a good stagger. The reason I'd like to go with tires for the OEM 16" wheels is because tire prices would be cheaper than ones for 17" wheels. I'd like to put some R-Comps on but would like the best bargin.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
I have heard tell of serious autoX folks running Hoosier 245/45-16s up front and 275/40-16 in back on AP1 rims, but I can't bring myself to recommend those sizes (both well beyond the recommended range for AP1 rim widths). That would be your widest/grippiest conceivable option. Fronts would most likely rub, though.
You could also run 225/50-16 and 245/45-16 Hoosiers. I've always done well and gotten great life out of Hoosiers on my 240Z, haven't run them on the more rear-tire-abusive AP1 S2000.
Tire Rack has BFG R1's in 225/50-16 front and 245/45-16 rear for *relatively* cheap money, barely more than Kumho VictoRacers. I've never run these, but supposedly they offer Hoosier grip levels with better wear.
The Kumho VictoRacers are another option, I ran them last year because I was driving on them to and from the track (rain = SCARY!). These give you the option of 265/45-16 rears (~1/2" taller than stock, min recommended rim width = 8" vs. AP1 rim = 7.5"). I would bet money the 265 Victoracers don't offer as much grip as the 245 BFG R1's or Hoosier R6's.
If you're worried about "stagger" (I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as it's made out to be in the stickie), you could run 205/55-16 fronts if running 245/45-16 rears.
You could also run 225/50-16 and 245/45-16 Hoosiers. I've always done well and gotten great life out of Hoosiers on my 240Z, haven't run them on the more rear-tire-abusive AP1 S2000.
Tire Rack has BFG R1's in 225/50-16 front and 245/45-16 rear for *relatively* cheap money, barely more than Kumho VictoRacers. I've never run these, but supposedly they offer Hoosier grip levels with better wear.
The Kumho VictoRacers are another option, I ran them last year because I was driving on them to and from the track (rain = SCARY!). These give you the option of 265/45-16 rears (~1/2" taller than stock, min recommended rim width = 8" vs. AP1 rim = 7.5"). I would bet money the 265 Victoracers don't offer as much grip as the 245 BFG R1's or Hoosier R6's.
If you're worried about "stagger" (I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as it's made out to be in the stickie), you could run 205/55-16 fronts if running 245/45-16 rears.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post